We want cleric stance

[Ultimatecalibur]

Cleric stance in PvP is problematic because of how it was designed. Because is switches Int and Mind instead of being a +20% damage -20% healing buff, it basically makes it so that both the Int and Mind of a WHM or SCH are maxed when they wear only Mind gear.

Combine that with attack abilities that are either on nearly par with rDpS abilities (WhM) or shared with an rDpS (Sch) and you get 2 classes which are both DpS and Healer at the same time. The difference between a SCH and SMN was pretty much a choice between 2 attack spells with a dps pet and 6 healing spells with a healing pet

Tanks on the other hand must make sacrifices to be effective dps by giving up survivability for damage and they still fall slightly behind on DpS when compared to mDpS due to their weaker attacks. Yes, they can hit 100k damage dealt in a good match, but a well played mDpS can get totals two to two and a half times that.

[Valmar]

The funny thing is, you're pulling out the "stupid" and "retard" when everything you've said in this thread so far is dumber than what the guy who doesn't even PvP has said (for the record Valmar, you are correct, I'm not calling you dumb at all).

Ohh none Taken, I really know just about Zero in PvP.

But If I'm not mistaken Cleric Stance was taken out from PvP due to the Abuse in Frontlines, and the Unbalance it created in Wolves Den, right?

[Valmar]

thats what i meant by being skilled if we use cleric stance or its deadly. Our tanking abilities (apart from the occasional attunement) are nothing except for our heals (on ourselves), and the extensive running. Basically, a healer is a tank with very low defence and no defensive cooldowns.
If a healer uses cleric stance while being focused by large numbers, it means death as he cannot heal himself.

Benidiction, Lustrate.

Boom.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

As someone that queues up as a scholar and a white mage for frontlines on occasion, I honestly can't advocate the return of cleric stance. It basically allowed healers to deal out incredible amounts of damage while having a minimal effect on their heals, especially if they had cast med 2 or regen beforehand. With 8 person Holy spam? "Good bye, go away we don't want you attacking us, good day." I actually enjoy frontlines as a healer more without it. If you want to deal damage so bad, be a DPS.

[Sanguisio]

reg and medica 2 stack twice afaik, and im also sure WD stacks with WHM abilities

Heals can not have cleric back, I play healer 90% of the time and it would be tooo OP.

On sch I could wreck it up without an issue, my ruins and EDs critted 70-80% time so that plus DOTs is ridiculous. Then whenever it got a little tight I just used rouse and attunement, lol for a bit while derp dps watch as their wasted CDs tick off, rinse and repeat.

WHM
DS, reg medica 2, swift stone, "noooo youre too close, SC holy ^^" actually where are you running fluid aura, sleep stone, lol

My point is heals can not have CS back, it is sooooo unbalanced, however I do think self sustain abilities like second wind need to be toned down a little in FLs.

[dcgregorya]

My vote is to leave CS in and put a healer stacking debuff where heals get diminishing returns based on how many different sources cast heals on you or based on how many are in your party.

Spider healing is really bad for any PVP game because stalemates are awful and CC has DR whereas heals do not which makes it difficult without voice comms to "alpha strike" people down.

Healers doing DPS = great. Stacking up heals for spider tanking = awful. Fix the actual problem instead of making healing in PVP boring and one dimensional.

And related to the other thread re: tanks - fix tanks by giving them better buff stripping and heal debuff abilities and put a snare on shield lob/tomahawk. Done & done.

[Geologo]

Cleric stance in PvP is problematic because of how it was designed. Because is switches Int and Mind instead of being a +20% damage -20% healing buff, it basically makes it so that both the Int and Mind of a WHM or SCH are maxed when they wear only Mind gear.

Agree!!
In FFXIV they designed healers able to ear a DPS support when the party is fine in PvE, so to let them useful they gave them a huge buff for their DPS, because they main role in a hard duty is still healing and they can DPS only for few time.
In PvP this make them totally unbalanced because they can really swap between DPS and Healer at their choice and there isn't any limitation to the healers in the party (I hope they will never implement it).
So in my opinion it would be fine if SE provide to change CS for PvP, not just remove it, because DPS support for a healer in FFXIV is something related to the healer role (and in my opinion make them really funny to play), but just balance it.
Following your elucidation, something like "CS increase the INT by 50% and lower MIND by 50%" would be great, so if you want do be more agressive wearing DPS jewels you will pay with a lower mind and anyway you want be able to reach the same damage output of a DPS.
Or just implement some of the CS nerf proposed by other players, balance it, don't just ignore a part of a role :/

The difference between a SCH and SMN was pretty much a choice between 2 attack spells with a dps pet and 6 healing spells with a healing pet

I want to point a thing that I saw, maybe I'm wong but let's see
I saw a lot of times SMNs with huge DPS in FL, and usually they are the TOP dps of all the FL.
I tried it, and I used bane a lot, in the final result I was the top DPS, but with only 2 kills, the other SMN in my party did 20k damage less then me but got 9 kills, in my opinion the skill that make the SMN a real killer is Fester (I'm talking about party fight, not 1vs1 or 1vs2, here the DoT can really easy kill!).
So I wouldn't complain too much if SCH and SMN seems to have almost the same skill.
Is like sayinf that THM and BLM has almost the same skills, so they really hit hard with AoEs (THM hasn't Flare :P)

[Geologo]

Ah even if I support CS for PvP (Expecially for WD, where it didn't broke the game at all), I don't agree with a lot of other players that want CS too but don't realize how it was unbalanced before, or that healer are almost the tank in pvp, or worst than all "Why did they removed CS and not Defiance or Sword Oath", I know how you feel as healer, but it isn't paragonable at all, tank can't "tank" in PvP (they decided to ignore the possibility to use enmity for force a target, so they can't tank), and also it is more a debuff removal than a huge buff like CS and them are not able to heavy heal and Heavy DPS as an healer with CS can do.