We want cleric stance

[Stylelink]

The title says all, removing cleric stance from front lines as well as wolves den was a terrible idea. If the reason for that is "healers should only heal", then to be fair, tanks should only be able to tank, so pally's should not be able to switch out of shield oath as well as warriors should not be able to remove defiance. Then lets talk about the damage dealers. why would they have healing/shielding abilities, their role is to do damage. Remove all of those.

As i think all these ideas are terrible, if the decision is to keep the "cleric stance ban", then they would be fair. But just removing that ban would be easier, cheaper, and fair.

Another thing, as much as cleric stance is a great ability, using it right requires a lot of skill or it will be deadly to the user.

[Valmar]

8 Warriors without Defiance isnt as deadly as 8 whm's all fully gear'd in Pvp gear, in the same spot, Cleric Stance all spaming holy, with DS Medica 2 and regen with stoneskin and protect.

or 8 Sch's Dpsing their hearts out in Cleric Stance not worrying about healing since the pet takes care of that.

Thats why they banned Cleric Stance.

[Stylelink]

8 Warriors without Defiance isnt as deadly as 8 whm's all fully gear'd in Pvp gear, in the same spot, Cleric Stance all spaming holy,

I can easily see the warriors winning if none of the white mages heal, its called focus. play smart.

Cleric Stance all spaming holy, with DS Medica 2 and regen with stoneskin and protect.

may i remind you that: -medica 2 does not stack
-regen does not stack
-the time to place regen on every member is equal to the time that one regen will run out, please tell me how to cast a holy in 0 time

Add all that to the fact that people don't want to play healer, so getting 24 healers in an alliance, or even 8 healers in a team will be close to impossible, as getting 2 is already a hard task.

[Valmar]

I can easily see the warriors winning if none of the white mages heal, its called focus. play smart.



may i remind you that: -medica 2 does not stack
-regen does not stack
-the time to place regen on every member is equal to the time that one regen will run out, please tell me how to cast a holy in 0 time

Add all that to the fact that people don't want to play healer, so getting 24 healers in an alliance, or even 8 healers in a team will be close to impossible, as getting 2 is already a hard task.

I dont Pvp at all so I mean I could really care less, Medica II stacks in PvE. I was unsure if it stacks or not in PvP, now I know.
The same person doesnt have to cast Regen on everyone. Swift Cast -> Holy. 8 people spamming Holy, plus stun, with Cleric Stance, in BiS PvP gear, thats what 2k+ Holy Crits

Google Is your friend.

Or YouTube.

[Stylelink]

I dont Pvp at all so I mean I could really care less, Medica II stacks in PvE. I was unsure if it stacks or not in PvP, now I know.
The same person doesnt have to cast Regen on everyone. Swift Cast -> Holy. 8 people spamming Holy, plus stun, with Cleric Stance, in BiS PvP gear, thats what 2k+ Holy Crits

Google Is your friend.

Or YouTube.

i don't want to seem aggressive or anything, but if you don't do pvp, you don't know what you are talking about.
-have you heard of stun resist? it happens when you get stunned twice
-2k+ holy crits? i don't know what world you live in, but even in pve i do only half of that, so with ilvl sync in pvp..
-swift cast does not :delete GCD/delete cleric stance cool down,when you cast cleric stance, you are unable to remove it for a certain time, making your heals useless.
-pvp gear has no effect on front lines (except if your ilv is below 80)
-BiS pvp gear? i was unaware there even were many choices for pvp gear.

Now please, if you don't know what you are talking about, stop polluting my thread.

[Sanguisio]

reg and medica 2 stack twice afaik, and im also sure WD stacks with WHM abilities

Heals can not have cleric back, I play healer 90% of the time and it would be tooo OP.

On sch I could wreck it up without an issue, my ruins and EDs critted 70-80% time so that plus DOTs is ridiculous. Then whenever it got a little tight I just used rouse and attunement, lol for a bit while derp dps watch as their wasted CDs tick off, rinse and repeat.

WHM
DS, reg medica 2, swift stone, "noooo youre too close, SC holy ^^" actually where are you running fluid aura, sleep stone, lol

My point is heals can not have CS back, it is sooooo unbalanced, however I do think self sustain abilities like second wind need to be toned down a little in FLs.

[dcgregorya]

My vote is to leave CS in and put a healer stacking debuff where heals get diminishing returns based on how many different sources cast heals on you or based on how many are in your party.

Spider healing is really bad for any PVP game because stalemates are awful and CC has DR whereas heals do not which makes it difficult without voice comms to "alpha strike" people down.

Healers doing DPS = great. Stacking up heals for spider tanking = awful. Fix the actual problem instead of making healing in PVP boring and one dimensional.

And related to the other thread re: tanks - fix tanks by giving them better buff stripping and heal debuff abilities and put a snare on shield lob/tomahawk. Done & done.

[Geologo]

Cleric stance in PvP is problematic because of how it was designed. Because is switches Int and Mind instead of being a +20% damage -20% healing buff, it basically makes it so that both the Int and Mind of a WHM or SCH are maxed when they wear only Mind gear.

Agree!!
In FFXIV they designed healers able to ear a DPS support when the party is fine in PvE, so to let them useful they gave them a huge buff for their DPS, because they main role in a hard duty is still healing and they can DPS only for few time.
In PvP this make them totally unbalanced because they can really swap between DPS and Healer at their choice and there isn't any limitation to the healers in the party (I hope they will never implement it).
So in my opinion it would be fine if SE provide to change CS for PvP, not just remove it, because DPS support for a healer in FFXIV is something related to the healer role (and in my opinion make them really funny to play), but just balance it.
Following your elucidation, something like "CS increase the INT by 50% and lower MIND by 50%" would be great, so if you want do be more agressive wearing DPS jewels you will pay with a lower mind and anyway you want be able to reach the same damage output of a DPS.
Or just implement some of the CS nerf proposed by other players, balance it, don't just ignore a part of a role :/

The difference between a SCH and SMN was pretty much a choice between 2 attack spells with a dps pet and 6 healing spells with a healing pet

I want to point a thing that I saw, maybe I'm wong but let's see
I saw a lot of times SMNs with huge DPS in FL, and usually they are the TOP dps of all the FL.
I tried it, and I used bane a lot, in the final result I was the top DPS, but with only 2 kills, the other SMN in my party did 20k damage less then me but got 9 kills, in my opinion the skill that make the SMN a real killer is Fester (I'm talking about party fight, not 1vs1 or 1vs2, here the DoT can really easy kill!).
So I wouldn't complain too much if SCH and SMN seems to have almost the same skill.
Is like sayinf that THM and BLM has almost the same skills, so they really hit hard with AoEs (THM hasn't Flare :P)

[ZhycranaDranix]

I think healers should be taken out of frontlines period....

It gives a more tactical approach and actually having to strat. to stay alive.....if no one could heal you you'd be forced to play smarter and not just rage into battle

[Yumi_umi]

Imo frontlines ruined the name of healers.
Wolves den at least made healers seem fair due to the fact it was technically which healer dies 1st will decide the match.
We had tools to do dmg and protect ourselves because after purify and attunement was used our only option was to kite and use sacred prism alog with any slow or bind spells we had.
Tanks could do dmg and tank while dps could do dmg and heal to a certain extent.
Everyone was capable of doing another role\\'s job
( healer = tank / dps / healers )
( dps = tank/ dps cuz derp they r like the least difficult role to understand in pvp )
( tanks = a meh dps who has a lot of hp and had a few stuns and ccs )