I fear for Summoner

[Dyvid]

I don't feel their ramp is slow at all, They reach maximum potential not even within 10 seconds of an encounter.

A 60s Enkindle would give them a little more spiky damage, similar to what Ninja has now, it would easily counter the fall that they have.

Well when compared to BLM it's a slow build. To get max output we have cast shadowflare, miasma II, (bio I + bio II + miasma = Fester). So about 12.5? Also SMN really could use more burst damage for encounters like Tam-Tara HM, right now I have to link ruin 2 and ruin > energy drain > ruin which can be deadly I need to kill two or three.

[Lavieh]

Well when compared to BLM it's a slow build. To get max output we have cast shadowflare, miasma II, (bio I + bio II + miasma = Fester). So about 12.5? Also SMN really could use more burst damage for encounters like Tam-Tara HM, right now I have to link ruin 2 and ruin > energy drain > ruin which can be deadly I need to kill two or three.

I think BLM's hit max potential at around 12.5 seconds as well, whenever they flare, convert, Fire. BLM's max burst is SOOO much higher than SMN's though. Our BLM is above 1000 DPS with his opener on Bahamut before he hops into Umbral.

[Dyvid]

I think BLM's hit max potential at around 12.5 seconds as well, whenever they flare, convert, Fire. BLM's max burst is SOOO much higher than SMN's though. Our BLM is above 1000 DPS with his opener on Bahamut before he hops into Umbral.

Hmm, when i play BLM I pop Thunder 3 to open then Fire 3 (for astral fire 3) > Fire > Fire > Fire > yada yada so it's like 5s for max dps output. Flare is my finish before I'm oom and need to switch to umbral ice.

[Sanguisio]

snip

No they don't, when a SMN stops doing anything, their DOTs still tick, their pets still attacks, aside from a few dots there isnt another class in this game par ACN/SCH who can sustain the dps without doing anything for that period of time. SMNs dps fluctuates while they should maintain a base level of dps (DOTs,Pet) their dps will go up from things like contagion,pots,RS,fester.

Trust me I am not advocating for the SMN to be ignored because their dps isnt on par with others but I'm getting bored of people whinging about it.
and yes I have played every single dps in this game at the moment, so I think it is fair for me pass on my pov.

[Sanguisio]

I don't feel their ramp is slow at all, They reach maximum potential not even within 10 seconds of an encounter.

A 60s Enkindle would give them a little more spiky damage, similar to what Ninja has now, it would easily counter the fall that they have.

I'd say 20seconds, but yeah SMN opener is lovely.

[Sanguisio]

Dont understand why. Garuda's Contagion alone is better than whatever Ifrit can do. Contagion gives a slight strain release on Summoners mana issues. Ifrit has nothing that can help the Summoner in such a way.

Ifrit is only good for trash mobs where extending DOTs is useless

[Hurlstone]

I adore the Summoner class, have done since the start of my time in Eorzea. It combines two of my favorite aspects of DPS'ing, DoT's and pet management. Having played as a Summoner for a bit during my FFXI days (Many years ago, so the Job has probably changed since then), I was delightfully surprised to find that its FFXIV cousin did not just take a back seat to the Egi, and that I would not have to be forced into simply healing under a different name. I love how we do not just summon a being and let it fight, we have our own rotation and utility to bring to the fight.

I am not saying Summon is a 100% perfect class (Is any class in any MMO truly perfect?). It certainly sounds like the raiders need a buff, and I for one really hope they improve how we use our Egi in the future. Specifically, making Ifrit and future DPS-based Egi viable choices compared to just Garuda and giving them a little extra to do during battle. That being said, a class should only be re-worked from the ground up if the gameplay is truly and utterly broken beyond repair. Summoner is nowhere near that level, and given as the major complaint seems to be simply one of aesthetics, I am quite confident to say it will never be changed in way that it becomes unrecognizable, at least in a seriousness way.

I must admit, I personally do not understand the whole 'Its not a true Summoner!' argument. Firstly, just what is the definition of a 'Summoner?' exactly? Secondly, this is not FFXI, FFVI etc. This game should not try to just carbon copy the past, but rather aim to put its own stamp on these classic roles and make them unique to this game, not any other.

[RyuDragnier]

Dont understand why. Garuda's Contagion alone is better than whatever Ifrit can do. Contagion gives a slight strain release on Summoners mana issues. Ifrit has nothing that can help the Summoner in such a way.

Ifrit is more for trash mobs and bosses that don't move that can be DPS'd down without fear of major AoE retaliation (such as Rafflesia in T6 and The Avatar in T8), just due to his higher potency moves. Garuda's Contagion can only help with the mana strain once every minute, but you have a drop in DPS in return since her potency is overall lower than Ifrit. The question is do you want your very small MP return in those fights, or do you want actual damage so the enemy dies faster?

[Havenchild]

No they don't, when a SMN stops doing anything, their DOTs still tick, their pets still attacks, aside from a few dots there isnt another class in this game par ACN/SCH who can sustain the dps without doing anything for that period of time. SMNs dps fluctuates while they should maintain a base level of dps (DOTs,Pet) their dps will go up from things like contagion,pots,RS,fester.

Trust me I am not advocating for the SMN to be ignored because their dps isnt on par with others but I'm getting bored of people whinging about it.
and yes I have played every single dps in this game at the moment, so I think it is fair for me pass on my pov.

It's not whining when it's supported by 100% facts.

Is it the hardest DPS class to play in this game? Yes it is. (Opinion of course, but there quite literally isn't a class as hard anymore. DRG was possibly a runner up pre-patch, but with the Heavy Thrust positional nerf that is no longer true.)
Are the rewards balanced for it? Nope. The challenge of playing a SMN correctly in raiding content is far less rewarding then any other class. You are not rewarded with getting better damage, you are rewarded with losing less damage, but are still losing.


Rational use of Ballad? Why use Ballad for a SMN, when you can use Army's Paeon to benefit the 4-5 other DoW with TP including the BRD himself. Say you do use Ballad for the SMN exclusively, not only is it not worth the tradeoff to the BRDs DPS but in comparison with BLM whose self sufficient,


BRD + BLM + Foes >>>>>>> BRD + SMN + Ballad

or

BRD + 4-5 DoW + Army's Paeon >>>>>>>>> BRD + SMN + Ballad (with 4-5 DoW classes in party)

This is not whining but complete truth. It's not to say the class is incapable of downing the content. However, a SMN performing their optimal rotation and playing a rather tough class in comparison to the others and bottoming out on a resource to try and obtain competitive DPS vs the other classes, is not worth it.

Not to mention, the terrible gearing thrown at us.

There is no whining here. DRG got QoL adjustments but SMN has long needed QoL adjustments. DRG took precedence, with good reason within FCOB but SMN issues have been overshadowed for far too long.
Bringing this much known fact right now is whining?

Also you are incredibly wrong about SMN DPS. There is no maintaining some base level DPS in FCOB. You more or less are in negative decline the entire fight with very few exceptions where you can pick up reliably present.

[Sanguisio]

Ifrit is more for trash mobs and bosses that don't move that can be DPS'd down without fear of major AoE retaliation (such as Rafflesia in T6 and The Avatar in T8), just due to his higher potency moves. Garuda's Contagion can only help with the mana strain once every minute, but you have a drop in DPS in return since her potency is overall lower than Ifrit. The question is do you want your very small MP return in those fights, or do you want actual damage so the enemy dies faster?

When ever the target doesnt die before the extended time of the DOTs, garuda is best. Its not just about mana strain, you lose 3 GCDs per recast of DOTs which could be ruins, also you can use Miasma 2 +PPPs and doubles the affect of RS DOTs.