4 Star Master Books - Completely frustrating and unfun.

[Truedragon]

Leaked rotations? It's the old 3 star rotation with an extra step. If it took you millions to work it out, you did something wrong. The whole problem is that 4 star has no benefit for end game other than glamor.

To make things worse, many people who play this game for end game battle have no real means of making the sheer amount of funds needed for a full glamor set without buying gil. Especially when there are better glamor sets. To make things worse, once the level cap is raise, all current gear becomes obsolete.

As for the loss you are talking about, there is only a potential loss with the 3 star artisan off hands because those need to be HQ and the 4 star foragers vest. The rest of the gear is mostly used for glamor and most crafting requests are for normal quality and not high quality.

Lol@you for talking smack to me.

If the rotation is so easy, then how come you could literally count with 1 hand how many crafters could craft 4 start 1 week after the patch. Yea it is so easy to talk smack now. But back then, only 1 or 2 guys were able to sell 4 star. Thats called pioneering, little kid. Only a handfull were able to craft it coz only a handfull of crafters were top of the game.

It took 60 million to get several 4 star books for crafts at that time. The mats were that expensive. You could not find anyone posting any rotation anywhere. It was grey territory. Completely not like today where you can get your 4 star book for a mere 2 million and where you could read up what you needed to do and how to do it. Someone else has already done all that for you.

That is called pioneering, little kid. Like the great explorers of ancient times. The landscape was barren, wild and unexplored. You were the first to set foot. Its not like today where you walk into a street and the road is paved for you with traffic lights and public transport.

Experimenting with the rotation costed me millions at that time. 1 allagan leather was 800k on the market. And you needed 3 for a simple craft. 5 for a chest/ pants. Has nothing to do with me screwing up. Its called economics. Its as simple as that. The very first people who got those mats were greedy bast%^!# and set the prices that high. I have no control over that. For me the only question is, will I buy it at that price.

As for gear becoming obsolete. Well, that is true for every type of gear, be it dungeon or crafted. Do you really think dreadwyrm will still be BiS when the new expansion arrives. They will be as usefull as current high allagan gear = nice for subjobs but for your main you will be upgrading into the new stuff.

As for BiS set up, there is a thing called stat weights. You might want to check it out yo. Some of the crafted gear are BiS. And some, while they may not be BiS, they will be the second best for a very very very long time. Its not like the bard dreadwyrm coat is farmable for 98% of the players. And yes, Kirimu Coat is BiS untill that day you beat the randomluckgods and you can farm T13. We all know that is not something you can do in a week. And even if you were to farm T13, it could literally take 6 months before you get your coat. Thats where crafted gear comes in. BiS or not, you control the stats essentially bypassing all the randomness.

You think it's good design to gate crafting progression with a 10 million gil investment? Not every crafter is leveling crafts to play the stock market game on the MB and get undercut all day. Some actually level crafting so that they don't have to depend on the absurd prices that idiots charge on the market boards.

Yes, that is good design. You need some sort of investment. They are not going to give it to you for free. Nothing in this world is for free. By the way, SE does not set the prices. It is players that set the prices. So if it cost you 10 million to get to 4 star, then thats because players set the mats so high that it took 10 million to get there. SE has very little control over those prices. They can make stuff easy to obtain and in that case the mats will drop in price as the market gets flooded. But the initial price is what players set it to be.

[xPeAcEx]

Lol@you for talking smack to me.

You must feel threatened if you took any of that as talking smack. I don't know how it was on Odin but on Lamia, we all stacked philo mats, myth mats, matercraft, oaknots and FC3's before the patch. I hit 4 star on weaver on day one, had most my supra's from before the patch and made my artisans culottes on my first try. Granted i melded my offhand wrong because i was experiment to see how much control it could take but the rotation required little to no work. I could have upgraded all of my classes on day one but i didn't see the benefit of it, instead i sold my supply of mats for a profit and slowly obtained everything at a fraction of the cost.

[xPeAcEx]

4* only recently started selling. Primal weapons were more popular. In fact, the crafters who hit 4 star first also ended up quitting the game first or stopped crafting, at least on my server.

Which begs the question, do you want to make a lot of big investments with small profit margins or small investments with large profit margins.

As an example, there are items that costs less than 10k to craft buying all mats from mb and sells for 100k on the board quite regularly. That's 850% mark up.

On the other hand, using you buy all the mats on the board 500k MC, 1050k Sealant, 150k rest. 1.7million for an item that you can potentially sell for 3million which won't sell any time soon at around a 76% mark up assuming you made it HQ.

Now granted it can take 13-14 crafts to make the same gross profit but on the other hand; you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. So was 4 star worth it? Not when other markets are a lot easier to exploit and move a lot quicker.

[Rath]

4* only recently started selling. Primal weapons were more popular. In fact, the crafters who hit 4 star first also ended up quitting the game first or stopped crafting, at least on my server.
...

Now granted it can take 13-14 crafts to make the same gross profit but on the other hand; you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. So was 4 star worth it? Not when other markets are a lot easier to exploit and move a lot quicker.

On Coeurl, this is not the case at all. I and others have, and still are, selling 4 star daily. I have sold, on the MB, 5 foragers body HQ in the last week alone. 3 sealant (750k) everything else was obtained from desynthing at a profit. Sold them all for 2.98mil each.

When one 4 star item becomes saturated, you just move to another. I gave away 15mil to FC mates for Christmas, and have made that back within a week. 4 star was definitely worth it for me.

[Sibyll]

Maybe it's just the market for DoH/DoW gear is more sustainable than the DoW/DoM. I just got my BSM and ARM 4* book, but I highly doubt it'll be profitable. I'm on a smaller server and there isn't much interest in getting crafted combat gear that requires melds when they could get more easily obtained tome gear.

That being said my first book, BSM, took a lot of fail. The second one, ARM, I got in with 3 out of 4. The most difficult part of doing these is patience. It's pretty tedious to just reclaim dozens of times to get an optimal condition and you could always just got shafted on the reclaim. Then again I could still be doing something wrong as I've only gotten 2 out of 8.