People selling runs, why not talking about it ?

[Niwashi]

Mind telling me why its "dsatasteful". Is crafting items and selling them disatasteful? Is gathering items and selling them disatasteful? Is paying for a service in real life distasteful?

Because this isn't a service from one player (or generally group in this case) to another player. The person paying is contributing just as much as the person being paid. Rather than being like selling an item, a more accurate analogy would be trading an item for another item of equal value, and then on top of that charging the player you traded with for having facilitated the trade to take place. If it's an even trade, then you shouldn't have to charge on top of that.

[Crysten]

Because this isn't a service from one player (or generally group in this case) to another player. The person paying is contributing just as much as the person being paid. Rather than being like selling an item, a more accurate analogy would be trading an item for another item of equal value, and then on top of that charging the player you traded with for having facilitated the trade to take place. If it's an even trade, then you shouldn't have to charge on top of that.

If you're paying for a carry, then this isn't necessarily true. A lot of people insist you die in the beginning to reduce the chance of a wipe.

If you're paying and you contribute actively to the fight, then I agree with you 100%.

[Alberel]

Right, cause anyone that has money is obviously a gil buyer. >.>

I've seen enough players buy clears who simply don't play enough to have anywhere near that kind of gil to know they bought it. I'm not saying everyone who buys clears is a gil buyer. I know there are some avid crafters who do nothing but that all day but again as a crafter you still have to put a lot of time in to make that gil. When people who barely play more than a few hours a week suddenly afford several million gil for a clear though it's pretty obvious they didn't make that gil themselves.

[Ashkendor]

Because this isn't a service from one player (or generally group in this case) to another player. The person paying is contributing just as much as the person being paid. Rather than being like selling an item, a more accurate analogy would be trading an item for another item of equal value, and then on top of that charging the player you traded with for having facilitated the trade to take place. If it's an even trade, then you shouldn't have to charge on top of that.

Not necessarily. When my static carries someone completely clueless about the mechanics, we ask them to die at the beginning (mostly this gets done in T5). Most carry parties I see for T9 are either "eat the wall at the beginning" or "learn till 47% then eat the wall". There's a lot less chance of a wipe that way.

[Lavieh]

Snip.

Most of the time they don't actually contribute, they typically watch. In the event that they do participate they are just paying for a successful run + Drops. Even in real life, people sometimes buy services and they themselves contribute but they pay to have things done right. Selling runs is very akin to real life practices. There is literally nothing "Disatasteful" about it. People who are of that line of thought don't really understand someones reasoning or purpose for doing so, which I find rather naive.

[Niwashi]

Not necessarily. When my static carries someone completely clueless about the mechanics, we ask them to die at the beginning (mostly this gets done in T5). Most carry parties I see for T9 are either "eat the wall at the beginning" or "learn till 47% then eat the wall". There's a lot less chance of a wipe that way.

Well, if they're not taking part, then they're not getting the run they paid for. Better to wipe than to fail to complete the very thing you're being paid to complete.

[Kuwagami]

Well, if they're not taking part, then they're not getting the run they paid for. Better to wipe than to fail to complete the very thing you're being paid to complete.

they're paid to get one guy to the end of the dungeon. Nothing more. I do not see "teaching" parties on PF. Only carries.

[SinisterIsBack]

Well, if they're not taking part, then they're not getting the run they paid for. Better to wipe than to fail to complete the very thing you're being paid to complete.

I laughed pretty hard when I read this. What exactly is stopping this person from clearing it with a group using PF or FC -- WHen you pay for a run, you are paying for a clear not for us to teach you.

[Crysten]

Well, if they're not taking part, then they're not getting the run they paid for. Better to wipe than to fail to complete the very thing you're being paid to complete.

If I was paying to actively participate in a run, I'd expect a pretty hefty discount if I knew what I was doing.

If I was paying for a group to learn the fight, I'd have to reconsider my intelligence because I can wipe for free in the Duty Finder. I think you misunderstand why people pay for these runs.

Serious question though - how many groups offer discounts to experienced players in a particular fight?

[Zedd702]

Well, if they're not taking part, then they're not getting the run they paid for. Better to wipe than to fail to complete the very thing you're being paid to complete.

I think you are missing the concept of the reason WHY people pay for runs in the first place. Though I don't pay for runs, I'd rather fail numerous times and better my fight experience each time than to pay for a carry. There are people that do not want to learn, or perhaps not enough time to dedicate to learning, or just plain impatient/lazy in general, and they just want the clear (for boasting/items/achievements/advancement/many other reasons). This IS technically a service from a team to one or two player(s), which is fine IMO. RMT on the other hand is ToS violation, and in the event someone sells runs for cash, then there's a ban coming their way, but in-game currency/items, there's nothing wrong with this in mine or SE's eye.

People form PF's alot for "learning," "clearing," and "farming," but I can say I have yet to see any that says "teaching."

I've seen enough players buy clears who simply don't play enough to have anywhere near that kind of gil to know they bought it. I'm not saying everyone who buys clears is a gil buyer. I know there are some avid crafters who do nothing but that all day but again as a crafter you still have to put a lot of time in to make that gil. When people who barely play more than a few hours a week suddenly afford several million gil for a clear though it's pretty obvious they didn't make that gil themselves.

I agree with you.

Have people that sold runs collected gil that was bought by RMT methods? Absolutely! Are all paid carries financed by RMT made funds? Nope.