FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[Taliph]

Can these actions be considered RMT? Are these people gaining any real world money? Nope. Can we call them RMT knowing that they don't get any real world money out of this? No. A solution is not always as simple as you can give it. The way the game was coded may have placed restrictions that can prevent them from doing certain things. If likely so, they could have delayed the Eternal Bond system to find a better solution, but you'll see topics complaining about "cancelling my subscription" instead of what we have if they delayed it further.

RMT is not only defined as a player receiving real cash for ingame goods, it is also the purchase of ingame currency for real money. You are effectively skipping over half of the definition.


The tradability of bracelets for ingame currency is called indirect RMT, the person paid real money for an item to convert to ingame currency. While that doesn't have as harsh of an effect on the ingame economy, it does have some. The issue lies in the fact that this also enables pay to win in some areas of the game.

[AdamFyi]

indirect RMT

There we go. Now we're using the correct term, awesome! But now I must pose you a few questions; How would this affect the gameplay of other players? Raiders? Casuals? Mid-core? Newcomers? Is there some sort of wall that prevents players access to content in-game that can only be broken through by paying? You yourself said that it had no impact on the economy. So you can't use that as a reason. o:

Refer to Havenchild's post as they explained much better than I could.

[Taliph]

There we go. Now we're using the correct term, awesome! But now I must pose you a few questions; How would this affect the gameplay of other players? Raiders? Casuals? Mid-core? Newcomers? Is there some sort of wall that prevents players access to content in-game that can only be broken through by paying? You yourself said that it had no impact on the economy. So you can't use that as a reason. o:

Refer to Havenchild's post as they explained much better than I could.

Really? You might notice if you actually read my posts that I have used the specific term "indirect RMT" many times in the discussion of this topic. You also might notice that nothing havenchild's post states is relevant to this thread or the issue of pay to win being introduced in this game, nor have they given any evidence disproving my points.

Edit to add: nitpicking over my correct use of the general term "RMT" and referring to off topic posts as your argument prove beyond any doubt that you do not have a leg to stand on.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Because what I asked was a genuine question. Don't lump people with RMT if they are not selling anything for real money. That's just pointing fingers.

If you actually read their post, it is on-topic. What they provided was a list of logical deductions that can disprove the pay-to-win that is being discussed. So, before you resort to attacking the opposition with off-topic remarks about how their argument is wrong, please read the opposition's arguments then point us where it is off-topic.

[Taliph]

Because what I asked was a genuine question. Don't lump people with RMT if they are not selling anything for real money. That's just pointing fingers.

If you actually read their post, it is on-topic. What they provided was a list of logical deductions that can disprove the pay-to-win that is being discussed. So, before you resort to attacking the opposition with off-topic remarks about how their argument is wrong, please read the opposition's arguments then point us where it is off-topic. If not, your argument can't support its own weight and crumbles to dust.

Seeing as you don't understand that "indirect RMT" is a type of "RMT" you probably wouldn't understand that none of their "hypothetical" arguments are actively being pursued... Thus making them off topic. They also did not provide any points concerning the underlying issue... Pay to win. I only have to prove one case that it exists... Which I have. You have to disprove all cases to prove the lack of pay to win.

You do realize that with the exception of head and main hand, crafting and gathering BiS is crafted and on the market board.

Just so you know, Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source as anyone can edit the page if they wanted to. The other link says the page doesn't exist. I would have loved to read that though. :/



I didn't know you could buy BiS gear with gil! Please show me your ways! No, seriously, please. Dungeon access is easily overcome by grinding out the poetics and soldiery tomes as the dungeon content requirements (with the exception of the coils) are pretty low.

Troll detected... Or you really are this ignorant of the game you are posting about... Don't know which is worse.
Running dungeons isn't bypassing content, nor is earning Gil ingame. Buying a bracelet and trading for Gil IS bypassing game content.

[Aegis]

There we go. Now we're using the correct term, awesome! But now I must pose you a few questions; How would this affect the gameplay of other players? Raiders? Casuals? Mid-core? Newcomers? Is there some sort of wall that prevents players access to content in-game that can only be broken through by paying? You yourself said that it had no impact on the economy. So you can't use that as a reason. o:

Refer to Havenchild's post as they explained much better than I could.

Skipped a lot of this thread, but, to clarify:
RMT: Real Money Trading. Literally any transaction of real-world currency for items or services ingame. This includes purchases from illicit parties or users (Secondary Market RMT) and from an approved agent (usually the game developer - Primary Market RMT). [1] [2]

So, this isn't a case of indirect RMT. It's Primary Market RMT.

You are buying an item from SE for real money. The fact that is is being traded for gil is incidental.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Just so you know, Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source as anyone can edit the page if they wanted to. The other link says the page doesn't exist. I would have loved to read that though. :/

You made a summery judgement based on that one point... That it is "crap" to you... The problem with that is the fact that combat isn't the only part of this game with progression (which is a commonly understood "win" condition)

Second, with regard to combat. A fresh 50 can do what you said, buy their ilvl 110 with their bracelet money, there-by bypassing gearing grind to gain access to dungeons. If an exp pot is pay to win, so is buying your way past content.

I didn't know you could buy BiS gear with gil! Please show me your ways! No, seriously, please. Dungeon access is easily overcome by grinding out the poetics and soldiery tomes as the dungeon content requirements (with the exception of the coils) are pretty low.