FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[ZhycranaDranix]

You do realize that combat is only one part of this game, right?

Do you even read?

The comment was made on ''World First'' which is Combat related ? Am I wrong?
Majority are arguing the ''COMBAT'' advantage on this thread , am I wrong ?
Players with gear above average now still lack the actual skill to excel in combat , am I wrong ?

And the argument was intelling that they'll be able to acquire gear to help them win in combat.....nearly everyone is lvl 50 in Crafts and Gathering and a good 30-40% of servers are still losing .....so who's winning ?

[Tupsi]

Ok, with 10 mil, that's all 8 crafts from 1-50.

With a friend or significant other to craft you leve turn ins or give you HQ mats to start your exp base a lot higher than if you had no HQ mats or access to mats also can powerlevel your crafts, thus you actually gain no advantage over anyone else by buying gil to level crafts, unless of course you have no friends or someone willing to help you. Then who's actually winning? The guy with no friends spending money on virtual currency..or the guy with friends/loved one that's helping them level?

So you're trying to defeat other people's arguments with an argument that can be defeated before it even was set forth.

Or most of a BiS crafting set

Which unless you're out to craft and HQ 4 star you don't actually need the 2.4 set. People were HQing 3 star in the 2.2-2.3 BiS which, btw, you could get "for free" considering how much Mythology rained on you. So once again:

Where are the Exp Potions? Drop Boosts? Access to exclusive raids that gives you better gear than what people can get from it? Oh did you know? Crafters and Gatherers can get Exp boosts from their Grand Company? Since you know you keep bringing up crafting..guess that's pay to win too in your definition. Since yeah, I paid GC seals and level faster than the guy who didn't by the Exp manuals, with in-game currency. :>

Seriously though, where's the screenshot of the ability to be far superior to someone who doesn't use the cash shop? Still waiting.

Do you even read?

The comment was made on ''World First'' which is Combat related ? Am I wrong?
Majority are arguing the ''COMBAT'' advantage on this thread , am I wrong ?
Players with gear above average now still lack the actual skill to excel in combat , am I wrong ?

And the argument was intelling that they'll be able to acquire gear to help them win in combat.....nearly everyone is lvl 50 in Crafts and Gathering and a good 30-40% of servers are still losing .....so who's winning ?

Yeah, the only way to argue against what you stated is to pull out arguments of something completely unrelated. Heck if you need to buy gil in a game where gil comes insanely easy..you're doing something horrendously wrong.

[Aegis]

There we go. Now we're using the correct term, awesome! But now I must pose you a few questions; How would this affect the gameplay of other players? Raiders? Casuals? Mid-core? Newcomers? Is there some sort of wall that prevents players access to content in-game that can only be broken through by paying? You yourself said that it had no impact on the economy. So you can't use that as a reason. o:

Refer to Havenchild's post as they explained much better than I could.

Skipped a lot of this thread, but, to clarify:
RMT: Real Money Trading. Literally any transaction of real-world currency for items or services ingame. This includes purchases from illicit parties or users (Secondary Market RMT) and from an approved agent (usually the game developer - Primary Market RMT). [1] [2]

So, this isn't a case of indirect RMT. It's Primary Market RMT.

You are buying an item from SE for real money. The fact that is is being traded for gil is incidental.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Because what I asked was a genuine question. Don't lump people with RMT if they are not selling anything for real money. That's just pointing fingers.

If you actually read their post, it is on-topic. What they provided was a list of logical deductions that can disprove the pay-to-win that is being discussed. So, before you resort to attacking the opposition with off-topic remarks about how their argument is wrong, please read the opposition's arguments then point us where it is off-topic.

[Taliph]

Do you even read?

The comment was made on ''World First'' which is Combat related ? Am I wrong?
Majority are arguing the ''COMBAT'' advantage on this thread , am I wrong ?
Players with gear above average now still lack the actual skill to excel in combat , am I wrong ?

And the argument was intelling that they'll be able to acquire gear to help them win in combat.....nearly everyone is lvl 50 in Crafts and Gathering and a good 30-40% of servers are still losing .....so who's winning ?

You made a summery judgement based on that one point... That it is "crap" to you... The problem with that is the fact that combat isn't the only part of this game with progression (which is a commonly understood "win" condition)

Second, with regard to combat. A fresh 50 can do what you said, buy their ilvl 110 with their bracelet money, there-by bypassing gearing grind to gain access to dungeons. If an exp pot is pay to win, so is buying your way past content.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Just so you know, Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source as anyone can edit the page if they wanted to. The other link says the page doesn't exist. I would have loved to read that though. :/

You made a summery judgement based on that one point... That it is "crap" to you... The problem with that is the fact that combat isn't the only part of this game with progression (which is a commonly understood "win" condition)

Second, with regard to combat. A fresh 50 can do what you said, buy their ilvl 110 with their bracelet money, there-by bypassing gearing grind to gain access to dungeons. If an exp pot is pay to win, so is buying your way past content.

I didn't know you could buy BiS gear with gil! Please show me your ways! No, seriously, please. Dungeon access is easily overcome by grinding out the poetics and soldiery tomes as the dungeon content requirements (with the exception of the coils) are pretty low.

[HeroSamson]

Its not pay to win because most of the gear in the game is the same strength or barely stronger.

A player cannot simply win a fight with gear it takes a great team tell me no and your full of crap.

If you bring up paying with Gil to win, whats the difference if someone helps that person for free and what if they are just friends and help because of that.

You wanna talk about how people have massive amounts of Gil, Legacy players who had kept their Gil and new players who joined Server had zero and when new stuff came on the market they got it first.

Do you think those new players complained? I am sure they didn't because it was so easy to get stuff by joining a free company and fighting for it.

If a person sells a item that is on the cash shop and makes a ton of Gil whats it good for? Besides Materia because regardless of the rushing through content with mercenary work which has already been in the game and does not cost a lot of Gil or friends to rush you through other than that GIL is pretty much useless.

Materia shatters and they waste all that GiL it would still be for nothing.

If a person was already making Gil by crafting in the millions why would it matter if he already possessed 50 million Gil?

Also the bypassing things in game, whats the difference if a dude has the best crafting in the game and a guy who farms mats all the time who's made massive amount of Gil purchases everything from the crafter without having to do dungeons for it?


its Why I believe you are all are over reacting no proof of it happening, show me someone who paid to win anything inside the game not just a bracelet for some Gil what have they won show something not just thought or speculation or opinion.

As thread said not about cash shop show something that shows someone is paying real money to win in the game and not with Gil.

[Taliph]

Because what I asked was a genuine question. Don't lump people with RMT if they are not selling anything for real money. That's just pointing fingers.

If you actually read their post, it is on-topic. What they provided was a list of logical deductions that can disprove the pay-to-win that is being discussed. So, before you resort to attacking the opposition with off-topic remarks about how their argument is wrong, please read the opposition's arguments then point us where it is off-topic. If not, your argument can't support its own weight and crumbles to dust.

Seeing as you don't understand that "indirect RMT" is a type of "RMT" you probably wouldn't understand that none of their "hypothetical" arguments are actively being pursued... Thus making them off topic. They also did not provide any points concerning the underlying issue... Pay to win. I only have to prove one case that it exists... Which I have. You have to disprove all cases to prove the lack of pay to win.

You do realize that with the exception of head and main hand, crafting and gathering BiS is crafted and on the market board.

Just so you know, Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source as anyone can edit the page if they wanted to. The other link says the page doesn't exist. I would have loved to read that though. :/



I didn't know you could buy BiS gear with gil! Please show me your ways! No, seriously, please. Dungeon access is easily overcome by grinding out the poetics and soldiery tomes as the dungeon content requirements (with the exception of the coils) are pretty low.

Troll detected... Or you really are this ignorant of the game you are posting about... Don't know which is worse.
Running dungeons isn't bypassing content, nor is earning Gil ingame. Buying a bracelet and trading for Gil IS bypassing game content.

[ZhycranaDranix]

Second, with regard to combat. A fresh 50 can do what you said, buy their ilvl 110 with their bracelet money, there-by bypassing gearing grind to gain access to dungeons. If an exp pot is pay to win, so is buying your way past content.

I like that you're adamant about this , and are apart of the player community who I see in turn trying to save it, but I see no hurt in this process at all.


This like Hunts will dye out. The #'s have died drastically since release its not a reusable thing once its gone its gone no one who bought 2 will by another...the demand will die way before it affects content in which is the case im arguing. The average fresh 50 will probably meld a MND +0 into their gear ...lol I'm just saying and a truly fresh 50 isn't going to by pass anyone progressing even T6 atm like seriously , you don't win a thing. Content prior to even the first coil is bypass able alone by ST and HUNTS so this argument was already outdated. Hunts had a big whoop , seeing players jump to i110 in a matter of days and look....4-5 months later T9 still gates a lot of people and 2-5% are still behind T5 even. (Again Im arguing the combat portion which I see most of this thread is adamant about being surpassed in progression Primals , Raids ETC. )

[AdamFyi]

Troll detected... Or you really are this ignorant of the game you are posting about... Don't know which is worse.

Are you seriously resorting to personal attacks now? You've just hit an all-time low.

You argue that the the pay to win stems from Gathering and Crafting classes. Answer me one thing; How does one level all their gathering and crafting classes in one night? To be a successful crafter, you need to level up all your crafting classes to get all the abilities (or at least most of them, but the harder the recipe, the more of those abilities you need). To be a successful gatherer, you need to get it to the level cap first. From my experience, it's a veeery slow and painful process. Especially when it comes to fishing and the RNG involved. For fishing, you can have the best gear, yet still fail to do much because of the RNG. And as far as I know, both share the same tokens we call 'leve allowances', and this also shares use for battlecraft and grand company leves. Allowances regenerate by 3 every 12 hours. Pay-to-win bypasses the time-factor and gives you the best of the best immediately delivered to your doorstep with no strings attached. :P