Slight warrior Buff/Tweak.

[aerolol]

[...] Enhanced Convalescence which essentially gives them the benefit of having the extra healing as a Warrior for 20 seconds, every 2 minutes, on top of all of the mitigation they already have.

True.

And Warrior get Vengeance, that gives them 30% damage mitigation for 20 seconds, and also cause counter-damage (50 potency) to enemy attacking, every 2 minutes.
(PLD Shield Oath is a 20% damage mitigation, Sword Oath increases auto-attacks potency by 50).
So vengeance is kinda a stronger version of BOTH shield and sword oath together, at the same time, for Warriors.
(and will hit every mob aggroed that is hitting you)


Both Warrior and Paladins are very balanced, but i prefer warriors ^^

[Ditto]

Why do people keep saying this? Yes, it's not very good, but it should still be used on cooldown. With decent gear it will heal you for up to 2k HP during it's duration. 2k is better than zero.

Just because I say it's useless, doesn't mean I'd recommend against using it. It's not like it takes a gcd or has some type of cost to using it.

And the problem with it's HP recovery, as I stated in one of my previous posts where it seems like SE is making it to where the little bits of HP you restore over time add up, it just doesn't work. Sure, 2k is better than zero, hell 39 hp is better than zero, but unlike with DPS where your total damage done does nothing but go up, HP is all over the place. It goes up and down, so the HP you've slowly restored over the duration over the fight means nothing unless it just manages to save you, leaving you at like 10 hp as the amount restored came in before you took the blow. Which if that happens, then cool you just managed to slip death for like a second until the next hit comes in and hits you for like 300x-600x the amount of HP you have left. Unless of course either the bosses next action is a cast where the healers can heal you up, you don't have a dot on you, or the WHM is already in the Benediction animation.

Yes they can, they have Inner Beast. It's their primary defensive cooldown. If you're still dying to Ravensbeak it's your healers' fault.

Inner Beast isn't the answer to everything, it alone isn't all a Warrior needs to take hits efficiently. It's good, and I'm not undervaluing it, but too many people give inner beast too much credit. What I' saying is it's not going to keep you from hitting a dangerously low point of HP alone unless you either have Echo or are over geared for the fight. If an AA crits after Ravensbeak hits you hard enough, chances are you're going to die (Pre Echo), UNLESS you can do something about it ahead of time.

The whole point I'm making is that not taking portions of damage is better than taking it and then having to rely on someone else to get your ass out of the danger zone before you're smacked by something as common as an auto attack and die. A Paladin can delay that from happening by having their HP reduce slower, they even have things such as Stoneskin at their disposal whenever they want, which is an instant MaxHPx10%, then That 10% / 0.8 = damage stoneskin will absorb. (It's probably the most common misconception that a Warrior's with Stoneskin is better than a Paladin with Stoneskin)

All I'm trying to say here is that Warriors get the short end of the stick in terms of their own survivability, and in giving healers more room to breathe compared to a Paladin.

So vengeance is kinda a stronger version of BOTH shield and sword oath together, at the same time, for Warriors.

......wat

[SpookyGhost]

Just because I say it's useless, doesn't mean I'd recommend against using it.

........wat

I do agree, though, that Bloodbath is pretty horrible. It's main fault is that it works as a very small regen, and while that smooths out some auto attack damage it doesn't really smooth out enough to save your healer mana. It's best paired with Berserk (as they both share the same CD) for getting the most bang for your buck, but that bang is still going to be quite small. Would be nice if Bloodshower changed it to 35% of damage dealt or s/t to make it a bit more useful on WAR, or just buffed Bloodbath in general. Foresight could also use some help, but that's an entirely different story.

RE: Mitigation

For Ravensbeak, the WAR CD rotation is:

1. Vengeance -> IB (IB mitigates the Ravensbeak, Vengeance mitigates the Ascent)
2. IB -> Infuriate -> IB (IB mitigates the Ravensbeak, second IB mitigates the Ascent) (If you're worried about AA crits, this is where you'd pop Awareness, though I've never seen the need to)
3. Thrill -> Conv -> IB (Bit more reliant on your healers, but requires less healing to get back up from Ascent)

Something to keep in mind is that PLD's Stoneskin can be used on the WAR as well, so the bonus that PLD gets from it can also be given to the WAR. The main advantage PLD has, in terms of mitigation, is in terms of the length their CDs last for. While a WAR needs to combine CDs to mitigate big damage, a PLD just needs to press 1 and it'll last for a long time. This is balanced by WAR's on-demand IB (free shield block for every big hit) and short big CDs (Vengeance and Thrill (you can use one of each every minute, that's pretty decent)). This is one of the reasons that bringing a good WAR vs a bad WAR can result in either life or death, whereas a PLD (good or bad) has a much easier time and a much larger cushion to work with.

RE: Vengeance

Yeah, dunno what this guy is talking about. I assume he's comparing the mitigation from Shield Oath and the +auto attack damage from Sword Oath to the mitigation/porcupine effect of Vengeance. They're not really equatable, but Vengeance is still a really strong CD. Bloodbath is also good to use in combo with Vengeance (especially in speedruns) as you get the extra healing from the porcupine effect as well as your standard attacks/autos.

[Ceodore]

Whoa whoa whoa, dude, just because I said Bloodbath is crap doesn't mean I don't have it on my toolbar and don't use it almost religiously. In fact, I pair it with another skill to help its usefulness and make it a very strong effect, Fight or Flight. People need to think about things that multiply each others effectiveness. While Fight or Flight is not a mitigation skill, it effectively become one when paired with Bloodbath. What was once 25% of mediocre damage becomes 25% of the maximum damage you can put out while under Shield Oath. They are both on 90 second cooldowns, so using them at the same time works out perfectly. Just be sure to activate Fight or Flight first, then Bloodbath for maximum effect. That being said, I still think it could do with some boost. Also, Vengence and Inner Beast are the two skills I’m most jealous of Warriors for having, but they deserve them. Vengence is like the counter cousin to Sentinel. Yeah, less % mitigation, but a longer duration and a shorter cooldown. No, a Warrior can’t very effectively spam cooldowns back to back to back, but their mitigations for burst damage are still quite strong. A Paladin has many strong mitigating cooldowns, just on longer cooldown durations. Though, I can’t really agree on the usefulness of Thrill of Battle, I can respect the usefulness of Infuriate + Inner Beast, their Wrath generation + Inner Beast, Vengence, and Foresight for their use. As Spooky said, the difference between a great and a mediocre Warrior is vast when compared to the difference between a great and mediocre paladin. Even a fumbling paladin can still account for something, even if by accident. Warriors generally require you to know what you’re doing and when to do it more. Though, if this is a competition, IDK why a paladin would use their Stoneskin on the Warrior, Spooky. Lol. But if we are comparing cross class skills, you really can’t compare much with Stoneskin. I was astounded that it was given to Paladins for cross class, because even at 10%, it’s still kind of ridiculous, especially as armor and health pools increase.

[Gardes]

Hey guys, I was thinking about war things and I thought about making a thread about it but I might as well just put it here.

About inner beast: I think 6 seconds is pretty short, considering the AA intervals. I feel sketchy about it, what with my timer display vs server timer. I guess it shines the most against tank busters like ravensbeak and critical rips but you know, healers always top me off before big hits so I find the heal effect a bit moot for this. So, what do you say to a delayed heal effect? Inner beast heals you only after the inner beast effect goes away from you? I suppose it could affect dungeon tanking? Would it be worth it? It's not even that big a heal but what do you think?

Also, I'd rather see mercy stroke changed to healing you if target if dies within 3 seconds of usage or take extra damage if it doesn't (if it doesnt suddenly make the skill op I guess).

[Marxam]

So, what do you say to a delayed heal effect? Inner beast heals you only after the inner beast effect goes away from you? I suppose it could affect dungeon tanking? Would it be worth it? It's not even that big a heal but what do you think?

When you consider when you use IB, outside of mitigating big hits, its either for heals or you ran out of cool downs. The heal is just fine though it would be nice if it was 150% heal.

Also, I'd rather see mercy stroke changed to healing you if target if dies within 3 seconds of usage or take extra damage if it doesn't (if it doesnt suddenly make the skill op I guess).

My response:

I use mercy stroke for the dps. A zero tp, off gcd attack at 200 potency every 40 secs. Yes please. The heals are only for solo content like alex maps and such where it is really easy to time the attack.

Fine as is and you dont realize how powerful it is until you've crit over 1k with it as a dps.

The one change I would fix is this:

A tweak/buff I would love, is to fix foritfy. It is a supper shitty skill and only increases my physical defense by 20%, which at my current phys def only adds a little less than 300 def just barely making it over 1k phys def. It's decent but with most attacks in-game being magic you can see where I am going with this. If Foresight also increased parry rate by 20% on top of the increased defense then we have a viable skill, especially for multi hitting moves like Bahamut favor. It would also make a lot more sense since Parry is the only passive mitigation we have that is tied to a stat where as pld has Parry and Block and due to the rng in this game is very unreliable at best.

Also the PLD gets more of a defensive increase because of its naturally high defenses making it more meh.

[Illya]

I just want them to make Holmgang not total garbage. They could start by removing the Root on the WAR, if the mob being Holmganged is immune. Besides that, they should also make Holmgang make the WAR take 50% damage during it's duration, so using it doesn't make you sit at 1 HP, Rooted to the spot, until the WHM Benedictions you or you die when the effect wears.

It would be nice if Inner Beast was off the GCD too.

I don't really have anything else I would want changed for WAR.

[SakiKojiro]

Marxam, you are using the skill wrong as a WAR.

We're talking about mob pulls and fights with lots of adds, not bosses. Of course you'd just use it for the dps on bosses.

That having been said, remember that whole "25% less damage" thing we warriors get? goes down to 150 potency. We're also not allowed to just stack STR, as that'd be detrimental to tanking. I go half-half, but if you have to go pure vit, this skill does nowhere near enough damage to be used as DPS booster.

[SpookyGhost]

That having been said, remember that whole "25% less damage" thing we warriors get? goes down to 150 potency.

Inner Beast's description:

Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.

[Ehayte]

Think he was talking about Mercy stroke from the potency, but Maim also gives you +20%, so the potency is actually 180.

All elite WARs stack as much STR as they possibly can while still having ~10k hp, btw.

A full dread/upgraded ironworks WAR can do T13 with 4/5 STR accessories. A i118 left side WAR can easily use 5 ruby penta-meldeds and OT T13. WARs ABSOLUTELY stack str.