Group doesn't have a BRD, how are melee supposed to dps?

[Ellatrix]

Someone else gets it too. It seems the people responding that get it are the ones that have actually cleared FCoB, and the ones that do not understand continue to trash talk and respond rather selfishly. :/ This is rather unfortunate.

Paeon is a very very useful tool, but it is not 100% always the best option for raid damage.

No, you never slow down dps. Sure, you can drop things that are dumb to be using (fracture, etc.) if you know its a sustain fight, but delaying normal rotation? Nope nope and nope. Oh, and I've cleared everything.

Get a BRD for your group.

[SolarMisae]

No, you never slow down dps. Sure, you can drop things that are dumb to be using (fracture, etc.) if you know its a sustain fight, but delaying normal rotation? Nope nope and nope. Oh, and I've cleared everything.

Get a BRD for your group.

Yes, exactly this.

And as someone else said, no, never drop huton. Ever. It hurts your auto attacks which are 1/4th of melee dps damage and DON'T cost tp so even if you're running on fumes, keep huton up so you still get the full benefit of your auto attacks. It's completely ridiculous to drop using huton. It's like telling monks to let GL3 fall off when they think they're gonna start running low on TP.

That said yeah either get a bard for your group or get your other melee to switch to ninja so you can goad each other.

[Tanthalus]

Second, there is no "slow down TP consumption." We do not have the tools to do that except to stop attacking, and that doesn\\'t solve the problem in the first place.

Well you have access to Invigorate which nets you a free 400tp on the instant and using your ninjutsu gives your tp a chance to recoup and when all else fails you slow the dps down nominally til you can bring it back. Sorry but I think this is a you problem. You think to lean on another class to be successful but the "nerf" hasn't been noticeable to anyone who knows how to manage resources. /shrug

[Kiokin]

Well you have access to Invigorate which nets you a free 400tp on the instant and using your ninjutsu gives your tp a chance to recoup and when all else fails you slow the dps down nominally til you can bring it back. Sorry but I think this is a you problem. You think to lean on another class to be successful but the "nerf" hasn\\'t been noticeable to anyone who knows how to manage resources. /shrug

Do you even play MNK or NIN? Because the TP changes to NIN completely negated the TP recoup you got from mudras. I play both, and you run out of TP at the same time (at around 4 and a half minutes) on both with proper invigorate use on fights with little to no breaks. Proper invigorate use meaning at around 560-580 TP to avoid overcapping from natural TP regen. Like, holy crap people, stop posting drivel.

[PROBOUND]

I know Melee dont have any TP conservation skills like some of the other classes (PLD Shield Swipe), but in situations like this would NOT using dots be considered TP conservation on high uptime fights like T10 and T11? I know the DPS loss would be pretty substantial but would that loss be greater than a MNK running on Fumes waiting for his next Tick?

Just spitballing.

[Tanthalus]

Do you even play MNK or NIN? Because the TP changes to NIN completely negated the TP recoup you got from mudras. I play both, and you run out of TP at the same time (at around 4 and a half minutes) on both with proper invigorate use on fights with little to no breaks. Proper invigorate use meaning at around 560-580 TP to avoid overcapping from natural TP regen. Like, holy crap people, stop posting drivel.

Sure do! And since I don't have issues you have (understand and work within my TP limits) I can once again point this out as a YOU issue.
Drivel is a great word to describe what you keep posting. Perhaps you should roll BRD and keep the rest of them up since you only understand how to drain resources on a melee.

[Kuroyasha]

Someone else gets it too. It seems the people responding that get it are the ones that have actually cleared FCoB, and the ones that do not understand continue to trash talk and respond rather selfishly. :/ This is rather unfortunate.

Paeon is a very very useful tool, but it is not 100% always the best option for raid damage.

I've cleared FCoB. People disagree with you and post multiple legit reasons as to why. You respond by calling them trolls, on top of saying their responses are trash talk and selfish.

[Sleigh]

I haven't tested it myself but it certainly is hard to imagine running your MT, OT (who will be doing 300+ DPS, much much more if closer to i130), MNK, other melee, and BRD dry is worth the 20% BRD gain and 10% caster gain for one minute, even if your SCH is going hard. Maybe with 2 caster comps plus a NIN I could see it being a legit DPS gain.

The only time my group does Foe's > Foe's is for short enough fights or for when there are distinct breaks in the fight. Of T6-13, Foe's > Foe's for T6, T9, T12 and T13 (p1/p2 are actually long enough this might be bad but it gets shorter every week). T7 (assuming you're not flooring it with current gear and Echo, which you actually should be at this point), T8, T10 and T11, Army's gets played.

[SunnyHirose]

I know Melee dont have any TP conservation skills like some of the other classes (PLD Shield Swipe), but in situations like this would NOT using dots be considered TP conservation on high uptime fights like T10 and T11? I know the DPS loss would be pretty substantial but would that loss be greater than a MNK running on Fumes waiting for his next Tick?

Just spitballing.

If TP starvation is a given, yeah, ToD is the first thing to go. Though, the monk will be running on fumes despite that. Gotta hang on to GL3 for dear life and hope you're overgeared so you can beat enrage.

[RinchanNau]

I haven't tested it myself but it certainly is hard to imagine running your MT, OT (who will be doing 300+ DPS, much much more if closer to i130), MNK, other melee, and BRD dry is worth the 20% BRD gain and 10% caster gain for one minute, even if your SCH is going hard. Maybe with 2 caster comps plus a NIN I could see it being a legit DPS gain.

The only time my group does Foe's > Foe's is for short enough fights or for when there are distinct breaks in the fight. Of T6-13, Foe's > Foe's for T6, T9, T12 and T13 (p1/p2 are actually long enough this might be bad but it gets shorter every week). T7 (assuming you're not flooring it with current gear and Echo, which you actually should be at this point), T8, T10 and T11, Army's gets played.

For sure. Depending on party comp Paeon can be very very worth it for t10 and t11. In t13 groups should be pushing into divebombs around/just before the time where it would potentially start to become a problem. Paeon comes before/during the first divebomb, and that's all that is necessary. Circumstances are similar in t12 in that there are breaks before/around the time it would begin to be an issue.

The Foe's vs Paeon debate is a little iffy when it so happens that one of your melee is a NIN. Even more so if NIN is your only melee. In a config with two MNK/DRG config there is not really room for debate. Paeon easily is better than forcing resource management in that case. Wasn't this thread supposed to be about how manage these fights WITHOUT a BRD anyway? It's easily doable and has already been done a while ago. There is no question that you do not NEED Paeon for FCoB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Oqq0npY1M

Granted this was before the changes to NIN, but it should be just as doable today.