We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Sleigh]

[A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.

SCH's Energy Drain is actually stronger due to Cleric Stance.

While it'd be ideal to just buff SMN's MP issues, in all honesty a SCH's MP pools while DPSing are limitless anyway so a buff wouldn't change much of anything in reality, as dumb as it is.

[Sequora]

It bothers me when people say that the job is fine and that part of the challenge of playing the job is MP management. MP management = dumbing down your rotation. This means doing things like cutting out ruin II between GCDs, possibly not keeping up shadowflare up all the time, not using miasma II with contagion. Cutting out any of these things is going to further decrease our DPS, when it's already lower then other DPS jobs. If a melee is starved for TP what do they do? The BRD plays paeon because there are other party members who could also probably use TP. Playing ballad specifically for the summoner is a DPS loss. Something needs to be changed. We shouldn't be the only DPS class who struggles with resource management and have no reliable way to get it back without severely decreasing our DPS. The other caster cast (BLM), doesn't have this problem because of the way their mechanics work.

[Crazypluto]

I think bard's still need to be looked at before smn since it's been buffed what two times now?

[Atomnium]

I think bard's still need to be looked at before smn since it's been buffed what two times now?

Nope, they nerfed it once at 2.1 (thunder removal, -4~7% of total DPS nerfed) and reduced the mp cost of bio II at 2.3.
No buffs involved.

Also, could this thread not become a BRD vs BLM vs SMN? Thanks in advance.

[ilmynasa]

Can I get an actual number to compare? People can say it does 30 dps less than any other DD, but what number are you comparing that 30 less to? Not saying you are lying, I just want tested numbers.

If you're talking about long fights, T13 has a thread, though not much smn in there...
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...cal_dps_in_t13

I wouldn't post parses here in this forum......

.........................And now I look at my numbers, I don't think SE will change it cuz they'll just say "suck it up, its still the best class if you play it right"
But I have to work SO HARD compared to other dps to maintain the smn top dps
My mana pool is about 100~300 by end of phases.....................I can't even cast ruin at times before transition zzzz
I just want that to be fixed to be honest....

[Orrias]

[A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.

I was thinking more a long the lines of these tweaks being made to an existing, or an entirely new SMN trait, so as to remove any undesirable outcomes with SCH. Of course, the Dev Team could just introduce a new version of Energy Drain - similiar to how Stoneskin II was - for SMN exclusively.



When push-comes-to-shove, FF14, like any other MMO is going to have balancing issues because of gear itemization, class mechanics, or fight mechanics. The reality is that this tier, the itemization for SMN's sucks, whilst gearing up...

Fine, w/e. Maybe the next tier will be more forgiving, however, the biggest issue for SMN's is MP in long drawn out fights. The Dev Team has paid little-to-no credence to this issue, so lets just try to get them to tweak something already in game that requires the least amount of effort -- hence the tweaking of Energy Drain.

No SMN playing competively, trying to compete with MNK/ NIN dps in FCoB is going to want to use Energy Drain over Fester, because it's a noticable dps loss. Tweak Energy Drain for SMN's only, in regards to it's potency and mana returns, and the problem may lighten somewhat more.

[Jamez82]

I'd like to know where the Metamorphosis ability went...
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[Orrias]

SCH's Energy Drain is actually stronger due to Cleric Stance.

While it'd be ideal to just buff SMN's MP issues, in all honesty a SCH's MP pools while DPSing are limitless anyway so a buff wouldn't change much of anything in reality, as dumb as it is.

That's why I mentioned 3 possibilities, as each one helps with certain problems:-


(A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain. - Could help, to an extent, to alleviate mp issues

(B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount. - after 5 minutes, you'll be at a point where you're waiting on the full CD duration for Aetherflow to be available, as you'll have blown them all on Festers as soon as they became available. As you are most likely aware, Fester is needed to 'spike' a SMN's dps to maintain numbers above 450. When Fester isn't on-hand to give a much needed 'spike', your dps drops.

(C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow. - Again, it's the same principle as for (B) -- more potential Festers over the course of any given fight leads to more 'spikes,' which in-turn yields higher dps.



These changes are MINIMALISTIC and require little effort from the Dev Team, and are they are most certainly not outside of the realms of their capabilities (e.g. BLM single target buff to Fire, Fire III (?)).



I don't know if the Dev Team do internal testing, as there is no PTR (public test realm), but as stated when the BLM "buffs" came into effect, they stated that they'd monitor the situation, so if the tweaks (stated above) were overkill/ underwhelming, then they could alter the variables (i.e. potency/ mana return/ Cool down durations/ Aetherflow stacks) to a point that they deemed acceptable, and was agreeable with the player-base. However, as I'm sure the Dev Team are well aware, tweaking variables on abilites can have adverse ramifications on later content, which is probably why they are reluctant to deal with things, especially as SMN as a rather technical Job. And if you disagree with me on the adverse possibilities of tweaking abilities in MMO's, then just look at the frequency at which Blizzard has to 'hotfix' theirs, for WoW -- it's a slippery slope, but it's the one which could gain the most traction (by the player-base and Dev Team alike) for it's feasibility and effort required.

[Sequora]

[U]These changes are MINIMALISTICHowever, as I'm sure the Dev Team are well aware, tweaking variables on abilites can have adverse ramifications on later content, which is probably why they are reluctant to deal with things, especially as SMN as a rather technical Job. And if you disagree with me on the adverse possibilities of tweaking abilities in MMO's, then just look at the frequency at which Blizzard has to 'hotfix' theirs, for WoW -- it's a slippery slope, but it's the one which could gain the most traction (by the player-base and Dev Team alike) for it's feasibility and effort required.

This doesn't really explain gear itemization this patch. There's no practical reason for the amount of spellspeed gear in 2.4. I understand that there are only so many combinations for gear but having spellspeed on our top tier weapon 2 patches in a row when every other DPS class has some variation of their two best stats just isn't right.

[Brianmj]

Many of the proposals in this thread are buffs to Acn, which would implicitly buff Sch. Scholars don't need a buff ATM.