FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[AdamFyi]

I'm sorry, but it looks like all the information needed is there. Is this really still able to be considered opinion at this point?

You've got it backwards. Selling in-game currency for real-world money is RMT. Selling real-world money for in-game currency is not necessarily the same. Let me put it this way; RMT aims to gain real-world money. The other is spending real-world money to gain in-game currency.

[Adrian74]

You've got it backwards. Selling in-game currency for real-world money is RMT. Selling real-world money for in-game currency is not necessarily the same. Let me put it this way; RMT aims to gain real-world money. The other is spending real-world money to gain in-game currency.

SE gains real money with this. You are paying for obtaining in-game currency, but instead to one not so trustworthy entity, you pay it directly to SE, this is worse because encourages people to do it, since they can trust SE in that matter.

Seriously, I can't understand you people and the many 'arguments' you try to bring whenever they are broken by the common sense.

Basically, they're replacing the RMT for themselves. "Oh, but, shouldn't we be happy about it? It means fraudulent RMT will end, now we have legal one, SE instead!". No, we shoudln't, legal RMT is worse, people trust it, people will pay for it, people will take it and boost their gaming, it is not optional since it is there, when you see another do it you feel so shitty about it that you either quit the game or you fall in repeating that social conduct and you also legal RMT, and that's all in a basis of a P2W.

Only a 10% would risk their accounts and information to some fraudulent sellers like RMT one are, and you can't really be sure of what you do until that point. If you can trust the one who provides you that service because it is the developer of the game itself, then you can say that 10% would become a 50% or more.... And everyone wins! They win more money, those people happily do everything easy and fast as they want and... Oh, wait, we who choosed to play games were we are equal to the rest and money has nothing to be on it don't win. Where's the experience, skill, knowledge? Bah, money!

[DefendPopPunk]

You've got it backwards. Selling in-game currency for real-world money is RMT. Selling real-world money for in-game currency is not necessarily the same. Let me put it this way; RMT aims to gain real-world money. The other is spending real-world money to gain in-game currency.

RMT is real money trading. It requires two parties, one giving up the money and one gaining the money. It doesn't matter which side of the equation you're on, you're still engaging in RMT if you buy/sell in-game items with real world money. Obviously, opinions on this differ but the definition that was quoted from SE is pretty cut and dry.

On a side note, it's kind of funny that by SE's definition of RMT we're engaging in such behaviour when we buy from the cash shop.

Lastly, kudos to the OP, if anything for at least gathering some of the threads made on the subject into one thread. It probably won't get people to stop making new threads about it, but oh well.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

By the words of lynyan;

holy shit calm down

There isn't much of a pay-to-win other than the one the players decided to create (just like the metallic dyes from quick ventures) themselves. Though, you do seem distressed that other people are willing to buy those Cash Shop goods that they themselves don't have access to by using Gil (an in-game currency).

Let me make this clear to you; Legal RMT can be interpreted as Resale of goods. You buy the goods from SE, then you sell it to the general public. Think of SE as the supplier and the players as the consumer. Do I condone such activity? No. Can said activity be beneficial? Yes, in a sense it allows access to content. Is this a bad example? Probably.

Snip

I went ahead and looked around for information about RMT just for you; Real Money Trading refers to the practice of the purchasing of in-game items, currency, accounts or other data in order to obtain real money. Please note the "obtain real money" portion of the definition. You are not purchasing in-game currency with real-world money in this case, rather, you're purchasing in-game goods using real-world money then selling it off for in-game currency. In the latter, no real-world money is actually gained by both parties, so RMT can possibly be cut out of the equation. Not far off, and not saying that your definition is wrong either. RMT is a pretty broad term.

[Adrian74]

Another thread had a dev reply. I'll post it here and also add to the opening topic.

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

Thanks for giving us a fast and positive reply. I'll try my best for give you the unique way I thought to deal with this trouble, hope it will be helpy:

- As it is right now, one player can reveive, via mogstation that item... Instead of making it tradeable, allow an input() field for the player to choose the name of the character he wants to gift these wristlets and a prompt to confirm the character name, and also the option to check the database and send an error message such as "The character name you entered doesn't exist in that world, please be sure of check world and character name again". (If one character is able to receive items through website, why wouldn't any other be able to if we manually add it with a writing field?)

This way, item can not be tradeable in game, but can be sent via mogstation to anyone for receive it... In other words, you can decide to gift anyone with it by putting that character's name on mogstation, it is a presents system...

"But, hey, will that really stop people from selling it?"

Yes, while not entirely, it will stop 90% of they doing it. Why? A reason of trust. People won't rarely pay for it without seeing the item first in their inventory, and of course people wanting to sell it for gil would rarely buy it with real money before receiving the gil... So who will give the first part of the trade first? Mostly noone, because lack of trust... How it is right now you can simple offer it in a trade in-game, player puts gil, you put item, both accept, and it is 100% guaranteed both will receive the items... While the way I mentioned via mogstation... You can't really be sure that the person in game would give you the gil after receiving the item, or, you can't be really sure that after giving your gil that person will send you the item, only by that, people would stop doing it, people does not tend to risk with those things.

I hope it is a fair and easy solution to deal with it and end with this little chaos originated in 2.45

--- About the metallic dyes ---

The another problem of the 2.45 patch and the EASIER to solve in my opinion, just make it so after you dye any of your gear with it it binds to your character, similar to when you glamour a piece of something. Let's say, you buy a spring skirt, you glamour some gear with it, then for prevent to resell and exploit it, that item is now bound to you. Same should go with the dyes (Or aditionally, and better fix, remove them from cash shop.)

This deserves an emergency maintenance

[AdamFyi]

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

Huzzah! My assumptions and deductions about the system were not far off from what they had actually intended! Take that people who denied that this whole thing wasn't intentional! *ahem* Anyway, I would like to point out just one thing; We have no idea what coding goes into the Mog Station as the way it works is by individual accounts. We have no idea if it even allows people to alter data on other accounts, so changing the system may be tricky. Hopefully this whole fiasco is done and done. Trying to support both sides is really tiring.

[Adrian74]

Huzzah! My assumptions and deductions about the system were not far off from what they had actually intended! Take that people who denied that this whole thing wasn't intentional! *ahem*

[edit incoming]

Yes, I don't like to omit messages after all because goes against my own rules. And that's why I decided to put the entire dev reply here. That said, it is good news indeed, I guess, because if it was really not intended.... Means.... That SE will get rid off the **** legal RMT and P2W environment that has been created after 2.45...Means they admit there's something wrong here.

Let's hope it won't get so much time to fix.

[AdamFyi]

Let's hope it won't get so much time to fix.

They may need to rework the entire system if they decide to since the Mog Station operates likely only on individual accounts (since it doesn't look like it allows you to gift people directly from the Mog Station) and possibly doesn't alter data of other accounts. This would also explain why they opted to go by the "purchase and gift them to your friends" method instead. I'm just glad that it wasn't intentional. It would have caused a huge backlash. Though, this statement does prove that the whole pay-to-win you've describe was caused by the players, and not the developers.

[Warlyx]

R.I.P FFXIV: ARR

Welcome to Final Greed XIV : Cash shop reborn

[Kyomagi]

R.I.P FFXIV: ARR

Welcome to Final Greed XIV : Cash shop reborn