Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

[Vodomir]

Considering how long DRGs have been mocked (especially if you count the stigma in XI), I'd say being a little overpowered for awhile is just compensation.

The only issue is, we are not overpowered at all. Neither are we best ST DPS in game, nor do we have the same kind of utility the other Meless DPS classes offer. So where is that "overpowered" state supposed to come from?

[SpecialKK]

No we are in agreement that you are delusionnal.

Edit: Just to humor you, i went to the dummy to try to do my rotation while failing every single jutsu. I dps was 20% lower than usual. A drg that miss all his positionnals, as discussed before, lose less than 4% dps ; and doing them randomly will make him succeed half the time, while a ninja who input mudras randomly... yeah, not so much.

But hey, keep thinking your job is as difficult as others. Attaboy.

So don't miss your mudra. Its not like doing mudra is difficult...at all. The only thing that makes mudras difficult is lag.

[SpookyGhost]

Just to humor you, i went to the dummy to try to do my rotation while failing every single jutsu. I dps was 20% lower than usual. A drg that miss all his positionnals, as discussed before, lose less than 4% dps ; and doing them randomly will make him succeed half the time, while a ninja who input mudras randomly... yeah, not so much.

DRGs have to work less than MNK and NIN, according to you because... they can stand on the flank and only lose a very marginal amount of DPS. I can see this being true for MNK vs DRG due to MNK having multiple rear positionals and DRG only having one, thus with both standing on the flank a MNK will lose more DPS than a DRG while both still being able to hit their flank positionals. NIN, on the other hand, has no positionals outside of TA every minute and can therefore stand anywhere. Your argument is that they have the Mudra system, which is just... not the same as positionals. You don't have to learn when the boss is going to move or when the boss needs to be repositioned so that you don't try to hit X too soon. The only time your mudras ever change in ANY fight is when you decide to hold onto Suiton if the boss happens to jump or you want to use it on an add. That's not the same. I understand that it's different and maybe you're not used to it so it seems a bit "whoah difficult" but it's a 2-3 button sequence every time the CD refreshes (or hold it for a bit due to other things taking priority) which isn't exactly putting you miles above the difficulty of DRG or MNK. NIN is not complex. Neither is DRG. Neither is MNK. They're all super simple. As I said before, this is legitimately splitting hairs. DRG gets a bit more DPS than NIN, meanwhile TA will scale better than Disembowel and NIN still has Goad + Silence + Slashing debuff. I'm not even going to point out the utility MNK has because if you think MNK's utility doesn't make up for it's slight complexity then you've gone off the rocker. Any DRG worth his/her salt is going hit all their positionals, so at a high level your argument is completely invalid and all jobs retain their initial difficulty because the point of a DPS is to push your DPS to the limits, not to stand there and take the 6 DPS loss. At a low level not only does it not matter because DPS doesn't matter for people who don't know how to DPS (or they're doing fights where pushing your DPS doesn't exist and therefore any job can pass them with flying colors) but literally there is a hair width of difficulty between all 3 jobs. I really don't care that DRG does slightly more DPS than NIN, not even accounting for the fact that TA provides more raid DPS than Disembowel because apparently nobody factors that in and just sees that DRG does more than NIN, because literally atm both jobs can push any DPS check in the game and neither of them are difficult. You know who's in a sinking ship right now? SMN. Not NIN with their "BUT MUH 10 DPS DIFFERENCE QQ".

[Leonus]

No we are in agreement that you are delusionnal.

Edit: Just to humor you, i went to the dummy to try to do my rotation while failing every single jutsu. I dps was 20% lower than usual. A drg that miss all his positionnals, as discussed before, lose less than 4% dps ; and doing them randomly will make him succeed half the time, while a ninja who input mudras randomly... yeah, not so much.

But hey, keep thinking your job is as difficult as others. Attaboy.

You did a perfect rotation for drg from the flank?

Then purposely messed up EVERY mudra on nin?

If this is the case, then your comparison is heavily biased. It wasn't a very good test at all. To compensate, you would have to not use the jumps or something.

Edit: For anyone wondering, in straight up ST damage it is still

Mnk > Nin > Drg. The patch has nin falling less than 2% of the total damage they were doing before. It wasn't a huge nerf at all. They shouldn't have bothered, that's how little it changed their ST dps. If someone pulled 520 before, now they should be pulling something a little above 510.

It's just drg is now in the same ballpark stadium as mnk/nin. Or finally making the nba all-star when everyone knows the should have been on the roster to begin with.

Now it's your 3 melee > ever one else. It needs to stay this way. The moment ranged dps outdoes or comes close to melee dps, melee dps becomes invalid for just about anything but LB overall.

[siverstorm]

Op doesn't even have monk or dragoon to 50 yet managed to complain enough about things he pretty much doesn't know about to elicit 16 pages of argument. Nice.

Also I haven't seen it mentioned (I also don't want to read through all 16 pages of this) but Chaos Thrust now has a back requirement for an extra 50 potency (tooltip is incorrect in saying its a flank req, I do higher damage hitting it from the back).

[Zedd702]

Op doesn't even have monk or dragoon to 50 yet managed to complain enough about things he pretty much doesn't know about to elicit 16 pages of argument. Nice.

That's forums in a nutshell for ya

Gives people that feeling that they can speak about things as if they are the professional (when they know nothing) especially when they have not even played the class to its fullest. It's like going to the movies and watch the previews then walk out complaining that the movie was bad.

MNK? It's not even unlocked yet. lol and DRG he only played it to the level for BfB for cross-class abilities, you can tell he did not take the time to actually learn DRG, I unlocked mine recently before the patch, but I paid close attention to most of the class and notice how horrible even in early levels DRG's dps was in comparison to the other two melee DPS classes. I relied heavily (pre drg) on stacked dot's, the LNC one and fracture from MRD, but now I won't even see what the past gripes were for myself as I have not leveled my DRG high enough to experience the true fail of the DPS punishment at it's top performance pre-patch 2.45. I've only read about them...

[beowulf81]

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt here... maybe he has an alt that has monk and dragoon at lvl50.

I hope so, because it would be pretty unbelievably stupid to comment on a class when you have no idea how it plays.

[siverstorm]

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt here... maybe he has an alt that has monk and dragoon at lvl50.

I hope so, because it would be pretty unbelievably stupid to comment on a class when you have no idea how it plays.

Based on his comments I can confidently say that isn't the case, if he does have an alt then at most he might've hit 50 and never looked back. I came in here thinking he might've had a couple of good points but as I progressed further and further into this thread it just became a joke. But at the same time I fully expected salty nins to run around complaining about the buffs to drg the second it was revealed.

popcorn.gif

[Hyrist]

<snip>

Remember the point where your mathematics teacher docked your grades because you did not show your work? This is the reason why. It ceases to become mathematics when you shorthand, it becomes estimation, and those who guess usually 'guess' in favor of their bias, thus, hyperbole. I asked, and continue to, as a personal request, that you do not throw percentages around unless you can (and this case do) provide the long math to support it.

More than willing to do the full break-down when I'm not getting pulled into work early. The comparisons that need to be made is DPS lost on positional now to what they were then. However I feel this is rather a wasted gesture as it begins to focus more on the validity of guesstimated math and less on the point of the matter.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a class that is 'least punished' by positional errors. There will always be one. The point in class balancing is to bring averages into alignment and this did so. In fact, managing positional is not a determent as it was before, but more managing a bonus.

To be more succinct, what is your point? That Dragoon should be 'harder'? Or should other DPS be easier? These are playstyle choices that are irrelevant to the purpose of the patch which was to short up the punishment mechanics on Dragoon (which has been achieved) and increase the performance skill floor and cap, which has been achieved.

Nothing in the patch so far seems to have taken away form my experience as a Dragoon in practical application. I can engage and reengage quicker, which I actually enjoy. And I am still managing rotations and 9 dps cooldown timers. It's just far less frustrating when the monster turns at the inopportune time now.

We can argue adding more depth and synergy to Dragoon's kit for future patches to make the class 'more engaging' But for now. This was a quick and dirty patch to get Dragoon's back up to speed in a situation where they were quite vocally getting ostracized by the community.

[Mariel-Shironeko]

How i say before, i dont think the Drg needs the buff and its my Main o_o, The Drg generate a good dmg whit the correct rotation, i feel greatfull for the upgrade but i believe thats no full necesary, and the "debuff" on Nin no feels so much so whats the matter?
I just waiting for the expanxion and there really expect something to do for Drg like new habilities or something xD
Greetings