The pull factor of Pay to Play

[Thistledown]

I've given up all hope since they denied me Windup Nanamo behind a timewall of subscription.

whyyyy

[Xhominid]

Well, it is literally RMT, you are buying in-game items with real money. That is the definition of Real Money Trading.

Not even close buddy, nice try there.
RMT grinds their money so you have to pay to get actual gil, gil which can easily overinflate the economy. Buying Cash Shop items from others don't have the same issue. But please, tell me how it's the same please.

[Aegis]

Not even close buddy, nice try there.
RMT grinds their money so you have to pay to get actual gil, gil which can easily overinflate the economy. Buying Cash Shop items from others don't have the same issue. But please, tell me how it's the same please.

Why don't I let Dr Vili Lehdonvirta of the Helsinki Institute for Information Technology tell you how it's the same. Complete with peer reviewed sources in the link.

"Some will maintain that because the above examples do not result in bans from the game operators that those actions are not RMT. But that assertion is not true. RMT is not definied by whether rules are broken. Instead, the rule of thumb for determining whether an action RMT is whether something of value in the real world is exchanged for something of value in the virtual world"

"Where players come to disagreements on RMT are on those activities that fall in the primary RMT market. The HIIT's Tuuka Lehtiniemi in 2007 defined the primary market as trade "in which the operators of certain services sell virtual items to users for real money"

Perhaps you'd prefer the MMO Glossary definition?

Abbreviation for Real Money Trade - selling virtual currency or items for real currency

Perhaps wikipedia?

However, the secondary market is unlikely to have followed the growth of the primary market since 2007 seeing as game companies have become better at monetizing on their games with microtransactions and many popular games such as World of Warcraft are sporting increased measures against player to player real money trading

I mean, those links are just randomly pulled from the first page of an "RMT MMO" google search. Could you not have done this before making a fool of yourself. Twice?

RMT means exactly what it says on the Tin: Real Money Trading. You are trading real money for in game items or services. The only difference between what SE are doing (Primary market RMT) and what the gilspammers are doing (Seconday Market RMT) is that the secondary market RMTs are not sanctioned by SE and are therefore against the EULA.

[MeiUshu]

why everyone of you is so surprised about this ?...as I have said it to Aion Players I will say it in here..ify ou are not happy about something you can leave, this is a game, when is no more enjoyable you can just leave. Second nothing forces you to pay real money to get something. Is it fair that those that have money can afford and the rest not? no is not, but is life though...again ify ou cant get something you dont get it simple and compose with what you have.

this was normal, a company cannot live without income,promises are only valid the day they are made, the next day situation changes and what was is no more..once you know this, everything is easy..

You all complain about something that you can easely solve.

Mei

[Xhominid]

[URL="nosygamer.blogspot.com/2013/11/what-is-rmt.html"]Snip

Now that's trying too hard.


If that's the case then why is suddenly MMOs allowing this sort of thing then? Who truly benefits? I seriously doubt it's the RMT companies considering they are getting nothing from any of that. I see the players actually benefiting since they can buy things with gil that they don't want to with real money. And the economy isn't tanking either from that since for obvious reasons, there isn't enough people in the game to want a bracelet that badly to begin with.

Those definitions of RMT is flawed because they are basically delving deep into the most literal terms of the trade, which you can say the same thing about an Expansion and a Cash Shop and how much they are the same. Again, go actually play the games where you can buy Cash Shop items with Gold(TERA, Dungeon Fighter Online) and trust me, DFO's main reason for tanking was for absolute lack of control against RMT'ers, TERA's economy has been fine for years.

[silentwindfr]

exept MeiUshu, prove me that FF14 don't earn them massive profit? prove me that they wasn't saved by the game last years? prove me that we aren't more of 2.000.000 people paying a subs (SE saying)

even with the legacy price: 9.99 euro for 2.000.000 people per month, it's about 19.980.000 euro per month.... and not every one pay this, it's don't cover the retainer nor the sale of the cash shop...explain me where go all this cash for the love of god!

Aion did fail, because they wasn't able to get enough subs, but that not the case here!

[Aegis]

You all complain about something that you can easely solve.

Mei

I think a lot of people are solving it the way you suggest.

Now that's trying too hard.


If that's the case then why is suddenly MMOs allowing this sort of thing then? Who truly benefits? I seriously doubt it's the RMT companies considering they are getting nothing from any of that. I see the players actually benefiting since they can buy things with gil that they don't want to with real money. And the economy isn't tanking either from that since for obvious reasons, there isn't enough people in the game to want a bracelet that badly to begin with.

Those definitions of RMT is flawed because they are basically delving deep into the most literal terms of the trade, which you can say the same thing about an Expansion and a Cash Shop and how much they are the same. Again, go actually play the games where you can buy Cash Shop items with Gold(TERA, Dungeon Fighter Online) and trust me, DFO's main reason for tanking was for absolute lack of control against RMT'ers, TERA's economy has been fine for years.

Those definitions are the definitions, simple as that. What you are doing is like arguing with a dictionary.

Whether or not it's harmful to the economy is debatable, certainly. Secondary Market RMTs are almost always harmful to the economy. But calling people fools for thinking a cash shop is RMT is patronising and, as it turns out, wrong. A cash shop is RMT, pure and simple.

[KatsurouIdaina]

if anything cash shop related will be in golden saucer im unsubbing even tho i played since beta. I'm losing faith in the game seeing as more and more stuff keeps getting introduced into the cash shop instead into new content we already pay for with monthly sub

[YGSLlew]

Threads like this really make me feel sad.

Even if this post is ignored or just nullified like so many others in this thread, I think I will take my time to take some points and see, what is going on.

First of all, I can understand both sides of the coin. The ones who defend the Cash shop or at least the strategy of SquareEnix as well as the ones, who say that they feel cheated on and blame SE for being greedy. And yes, there are some points for each side.

First of all, is the cash shop pay to win?

No, it is not. Normal common sense as well as the pure definition of pay to win proves this theory wrong. Pay to win is basically the fact, that you have to pay for things, which allow you to beat the game or your oppenents. NOTHING in the Cash shop serves the pay to win cliché.
Sure, if we think about the additional retainers which we can subscribe for, one could say, that they are giving an advantage, like more storage or higher capabilities for selling stuff on the market board. But let's be honest, that's just a more convenient method, directly offered by SE. If you don't want them, you make an alt, level him until he get's retainers and you trade your stuff with the FC chest and you will achieve exactly the same. So, that's nothing, that's impossible without getting those additional ones.
Let's get the next stuff: The mount. Does it give you any unfair disadvantage? No. It's not faster than all the other mounts you can aquire through gameplay. And at least until now, besides the Chocobo from the wedding plans, it is the ONLY ONE you can buy. Of course, it would have been great if we were able to get it through ingame content, but that is not the point here. It is simply no pay to win.
Minions: Really? They don't give any advantage at all and they simply have no use, besides for collectors and there is nothing wrong with getting them for a few bucks. Hell, no one was whining for the wind-up Bahamut Minion, which you could only get when buying the soundtrack.
Dyes: Yeah, you totally need those to beat the hardest content or craft the most difficult recipes (sarcasm off now). Besides the fact that the most don't even look good (but that's a matter of taste), there are tons of other colors in the game you can craft or simply buy at the MB or at some vendors. So, where is your pay to win now?
Wedding: This is a difficult one. But it is a fact, that it is not necessary in any way to beat the game and gives no advantage. Two man chocobo? Everyone has it's own by default when playing the game, so this is no advantage. And if you want a two man choco, simply get a friend into the game and you get the Tandem-Choco, which btw looks far better. Also, most people forget there is a free plan. Basically you get the most important things there, so only for collectors or really passionate people, the gold or platinum plan will be of interest.
Outfits: This is just glamour stuff and was obtainable through seasonal events. Besides the fact that it's ugly as hell, you have been able to get it ingame and for those who came later, the shop is a good way to obtain it if they really want.
Phantasia: EVERYONE had the chance to design his character for free at the beginning and you even have the stylist to make slight changes. There's nothing wrong with paying a fee for changing that. Other MMOs don't even give the option to redesign your character. No pay to win btw, since your looks don't affect the gameplay at all.
The tradeability of wedding plans: Well, I think it wasn't the smartest choice of SE to make this tradable. But even so, if players are able to get those gold and platinum plans ingame, that's no bad thing. And if they are willing to pay those gil, fine for those who got it for real money. I wouldn't call it RMT in the way it is known, but it's on the edge. But besides that, the "pay to win" doesn't apply here in every aspect. Sure, those people get gil by buying those plans and resell them ingame, BUT there is no chance to obtain the best fighting gear for gil and the crafting stuff will be a bit too expensive, even for someone who buys a few plans and resells them. But yeah, the decision to make those tradable wasn't the best even though it is most likely that this is just meant to give it to husband or wife, not for selling. But it's hard to implement I think.

Allright, next point: SquareEnix is greedy vs. "they need the money to make content".

Well, they in fact ARE greedy in terms of making money besides the subs. Someone before me did the math and in fact, SE makes more than enough money with subs. Other companys would kill to get this many subs and the money the make with it.
But let's be honest. They only do, what others do as well. Even Blizzard sells stuff in their cash shop (e.g. Mounts for WoW) and if it works with the MMO which has the most subs of all subscription based MMOs, why shouldn't it work with Final Fantasy? And in WoW, you have the same stuff to buy and nobody is crying. And SE is, just like Blizzard, a company which wants to make money.

Now there's a point, I hate reading. "They put a lot of effort into the Cash shop and don't give us our content for free."
Really? Are people THAT blind? That little crappy stuff in the cash shop? What's with the big content updates 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4?
Hell, have you ever played "The Secret World" or other P2P, F2P or similar MMOs? Their players would cry of joy if they would get this mass of content in such a fast pace. SE is doing a great job with providing people with new content, a new class, new quests, new trials, new raids and so on. Of course, for many players there can't even be enough, but the majority is fine with the amount of content. Just look into the forums. So many players have not even done coil before, or are crafting like bosses. You get so much content and you are whining because a collectors edition of wedding, a mount, some colors and a few minions as well as some ugly seasonal costumes are sold in the cash shop? Come on...become realistic here.

Don't understand me wrong. I am not fully satisfied with the fact, that there are some things I can only get through the shop while paying a monthly fee.
However, some people are making such a fuss and drama over that...
If the people cancel their subs or simply don't buy the stuff, SE will react but we all know this is not gonna happen.
I for myself won't cancel my sub until it gets unfair in my eyes. And we are far away from that. I also doubt, that we have to be afraid that relevant content will be sold any time soon.