Who is Optional – A Question of Consumer Value

[Edeline]

No, they haven't. Pay to win refers to games that allow you to purchase weapons, armor, buffs that give you an edge over a player in end game content (the "win" portion of pay to win). You're trying to change the definition to fit your argument. Minions, mounts, and glamours give no advantage in end game, therefore they are not pay to win.

It's a PvE game. Nothing gives you adventage over other players. What other players do in their time doesn't affect you at all. If player A buys raid gear (that you can get it anyway by farming) and kills X boss, what adventage does it have over others when others can kill it aswell. What do they win, the interwebz? You're wrong if you think buying items with stats give you adventage over others when they don't even play with/against you in a game where you can get the same items anyway. It's just pay to be lazy, and not pay to play the game. Now, if you could buy PvP gear, that would be different, because your stats are affecting other players. And still it's not pay to win because you're not getting any adventage that other players can't. If you played real p2w games where cash shop sell you items that allow you to kill your opponents in way less hits while tanking their tickling hits, now that would be pay to win. Again, it's a PvE game, learn to mind your own business instead of focusing so much in what others get just for the e-peen (and btw, I do raid).

[Teryaani]

It's a PvE game. Nothing gives you adventage over other players. What other players do in their time doesn't affect you at all. If player A buys raid gear (that you can get it anyway by farming) and kills X boss, what adventage does it have over others when others can kill it aswell. What do they win, the interwebz? You're wrong if you think buying items with stats give you adventage over others when they don't even play with/against you in a game where you can get the same items anyway. It's just pay to be lazy, and not pay to play the game.

Stop there. You're changing the subject. You stated that the definition of pay to win had changed. It hasn't. You're trying to change it. Pay to win is purchasing an advantage in end game (or possibly in PVP). This has nothing to do with my perception of things at all. What SE is selling doesn't allow you to conquer the end game any faster. Therefore, not pay to win.


See, I'm not a raider (achievements are public, have a look), but others here are. I'm sure your statement will cause them to fume, but for me I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile that attitude with thinking that pets and mounts matter. Because, by your statement there, buying pets and mounts isn't pay to win either because hey! it doesn't give you any advantage over another player and what other players do in their time doesn't affect you at all. Right?

Now, if you could buy PvP gear, that would be different, because your stats are affecting other players. And still it's not pay to win because you're not getting any adventage that other players can't. If you played real p2w games where cash shop sell you items that allow you to kill your opponents in way less hits while tanking their tickling hits, now that would be pay to win. Again, it's a PvE game, learn to mind your own business instead of focusing so much in what others get just for the e-peen (and btw, I do raid).

I love the tactic of trying to paint me as a jealous raider worried about e-peen. Nicely done. Not biting though. Pay to win is a widely understood and accepted thing. Vanity <> Pay to Win.