Who is Optional – A Question of Consumer Value

[Edeline]

When you go to a restaurant and buy a meal, do you demand a drink (other than ice water) for free? That soda you get with your meal is charged, if you order a beer, do you expect to pay for one and get 2 or 3 for free? That's what people are demanding here in essence. Your sub pays for the meal(base game, connection). Want that soda, or dessert? You pay extra.

Being technical in your metaphor, you're paying to enter the restaurant, not the meal. The meal is included as a free buffet. You choose what to eat once inside. The restaurant is divided by food sections. Hypothetically speaking you're a vegetarian person and you go to the vegetarian side of said restaurant with free buffet, then after you're eating your free food, they add new dishes on that side, but they cost money while people on the other side are eating meat as a normal free buffet. Because after all, being vegetarian is optional, and you have to pay more for more optional vegetarian dishes.

[myahele]

I think we should look at WoWs cash shop and expect SE to do something similar since this game borrows heavily from the WoW model.

[Izsha]

Lol I've never actually played minecraft. I just gathered there's no actual objectives and it's basically digital free form legos with added functionalities. Had no idea there were actual objectives of any kind lol. But generally I agree. But when it comes to definitions, it just makes me sense to use the universal or broader definitions. When people take words and apply their own personal meanings in discussion (especially a text medium in a large group like forums) all it does is convoluted and confuse the issue making honest debate nigh impossible. I hate debates where 'everyone's right because we're using free form definitions' that's not helpful and does nothing but make people talk in circles. We can't all have our personal definitions of p2w and then have a rational discussion if cash shop is p2w or not. It just gets ridiculous (as we've seen).

And by actually being specific we (at least the 2 of us) have come to realize we don't actually fundamentally disagree and can actually develop the conversation instead of just yell how wrong the other is louder. Wish more people would.

[Mook_Mook]

Im very amused at how many people missed the point of this thread
Selling minions to people is the same as selling raid gear to people. People are so narrow minded in there perspective they cant see it from someone elses point of view. Kind of sad with the lack of empathy for people who have had there experiences ruined.

[Seoulstar]

Im very amused at how many people missed the point of this thread
Selling minions to people is the same as selling raid gear to people. People are so narrow minded in there perspective they cant see it from someone elses point of view. Kind of sad with the lack of empathy for people who have had there experiences ruined.

I'm curious to know how it's even remotely the same thing since one is just something following you around as compared to the other which affects your character stats..

[KodiHivaer]

Selling minions to people is the same as selling raid gear to people..

You've heard it here people, minions give your character advantages over other players...

[Erudain]

You've heard it here people, minions give your character advantages over other players...

If you want to brag about it with your friends and FC-mates....yeah yeah they do.

Edit: was a nice OP and I can relate a lot with what you said, but unfortunatly you are beating a dead horse trying to get ppl to empathize or think stuff rationally.
As I said yesterday in another thread, this argument is like watching an atheist and a theist argue, they won't reach an understanding and will both end the discussion angry.

[Rubieus]

Optional: Playing this game.
Not Optional: Heart Beating
Suboptional: Breathing

Complaining about not getting your money's worth: Optional
Forgetting that this is all new territory: Optional
Being a jerk in DF: Optional

Sorry if I am rambling, but the point is, when you agreed to TOS and logged in your very first time, you agreed to pay for a service, which was to give you an MMORPG FF-themed experience. You would borrow a character slot and get to make any character you wanted and do anything you wanted with them. as long as it was within the scope of the game. If you chose not to progress in any of the quests or content. That is your choice, it is optional. Nothing in this game is a requirement unless PROGRESSION is your goal. In which case, select things become optional and the rest are mandatory.

Want a house? Start making gil. Want to make cool music videos? Start clearing content. Want to get married? Find someone who will tolerate you.
Want to get married with more flair? Pay a little more for it.

I do have one small problem with this though: If, SE decides to start selling expanded content on CS like this wedding stuff. What is going to stop them from adding in new things like bigger houses or upgrades for houses, bigger gardens and the like? I already own 4 Retainers while not directly Pay to Win, it does make my life less stressful and gives me more space to farm and horde things for future patches so I can sell for a bunch.

I am not against this decision by SE, but I really hope the content they implement is satisfactory and don't make the player feel as if they are missing out because they didn't buy the expanded version on CS.

[Shougun]

Lol I've never actually played minecraft. I just gathered there's no actual objectives and it's basically digital free form legos with added functionalities. Had no idea there were actual objectives of any kind lol. But generally I agree. But when it comes to definitions, it just makes me sense to use the universal or broader definitions. When people take words and apply their own personal meanings in discussion (especially a text medium in a large group like forums) all it does is convoluted and confuse the issue making honest debate nigh impossible. I hate debates where 'everyone's right because we're using free form definitions' that's not helpful and does nothing but make people talk in circles. We can't all have our personal definitions of p2w and then have a rational discussion if cash shop is p2w or not. It just gets ridiculous (as we've seen).

And by actually being specific we (at least the 2 of us) have come to realize we don't actually fundamentally disagree and can actually develop the conversation instead of just yell how wrong the other is louder. Wish more people would.

There are some quests you can pick up from the npc towns, I think that is the easiest way to argue objective, but there is also some crafted armor and tools that have tiers of progression. You need to move along the tiers to effectively reach the next (and certain materials literally require a specific tier). Though, you're right that its not the strongest objective based game lol (since it is so free form you may argue that building vanity can be a form of success and objective but.. yeah more in the realm of opinions now).

I think some of the more memorable conversations are not emphatic agreement on some game idea but earnest attempt at conversation, the patient, conscious desire to have honest communication, which can work around misunderstandings or disagreements to at least a mutual place of knowing.

I try not to put too much time into the forums (post count seems to sell me out sometimes) but I'll be happy to look for constructive talks with you when I can muster something intelligible on a shared topic

Bit more to thread, I'm not a fan of the shop but I find the most annoying not optional option is the two-seater mount. You can't really have that feature in the game without going through some sort of pay wall. There is not a native feature for this.. My two grains of rice to add on the mountain. SE, at some point.. <3?

[Serdapi]

Anything that does not advance you in Story or iLvl is vanity content. Vanity content is not the over all goal of a game, yes it is in the game and you can put it as a goal for yourself but the game was not designed that way. The game has a story and raids that progress your character in that story, this is the main goal of the game. If you want a game that is based around Vanity content go play the Sims.

If you want to do things outside the scope of the main goal and the developers give you the option to do so but it comes with a price its fine because it does not involve further or hinder people from the main goal of the game. You choose to participate in this vanity content, in doing so you have the great option of making it better by paying more, you also have the option of not paying at all. You should be happy there is even a choice of not paying, because this content is not even close to the purpose of the game. Everyone complaining needs to get over themself, you are part of the problem. Please do not complain about vanity content in a story based, progressional game. As I said if you want to play a vanity game the Sims Online or Second Life are still around.