Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[Serdapi]

No, enjoyment is the purpose of the game.

Enjoyment is the effect of the game. Not the purpose.

Story, gear, vanity content, raids, quests the items cause enjoyment.

By design the game's purpose is telling a story in a progressional way. As I said if you can't see that you are delusional.

[Kaeda_Valentyne]

Enjoyment is the effect of the game. Not the purpose.

Story, gear, vanity content, raids, quests the items cause enjoyment.

By design the game's purpose is telling a story in a progressional way. As I said if you can't see that you are delusional.

No, if that is what you truly believe than you are delusional.

The sole purpose of this game is to make SE money.
How they go about doing that is by making sure people will enjoy it enough to buy and play it. So in effect enjoyment is the sole factor in the purpose of the game. All of the things you listed play an important role in whether the game is enjoyable or not. If the game wasn't enjoyable people wouldn't pay for it, SE wouldn't make money and the game wouldn't be up and running.

All SE is doing now is seeing how much more money they can make, and how far they can push it with the cash shop before they start losing money.
When your sub doesn't buy you what you find enjoyable and you don't have extra money to spend on the "extras" that would make it enjoyable for you all you are left with is unsubing. SE wont care until the amount of money they lose from subs is more than they make from the cash shop purchases.

[Serdapi]

No, if that is what you truly believe than you are delusional.

The sole purpose of this game is to make SE money.

I am talking from a design and dev aspect. You are talking from a business aspect. We are both right.

Content and Vanity Content come from the design and dev part. Making it a cash option comes from the business part.

The reason Vanity content can be made a cash option because it doesn't break the game and make it Pay 2 win. This is why you don't see actual content of Story or gear in the cash shop. The dev and design teams main structure of the game is around a story and gear progression. Add-ons like Weddings and Housing is vanity content that does not impact the core development of the game. Business people decided that Housing wasn't worth putting in the cash shop but an extra bonus things for weddings were.

You have the option not to purchase this extra which is up to the player. If no-one buys it, it will not hurt SE one bit because the content is already designed and everyone that does buy is just a plus. Win win for SE. If people unsub because they can't get extra items in the game where there is a free option then that's the players choice but I feel the will have a better time playing a different game because there expectations were completely wrong. The items in the cash shop is no different that skins in LoL.

[Edellis]

Enjoyment is the effect of the game. Not the purpose.

Story, gear, vanity content, raids, quests the items cause enjoyment.

By design the game's purpose is telling a story in a progressional way. As I said if you can't see that you are delusional.

.....what?

You were able to upgrade your game to CE status at the mogstation anyway, and some hypothetical GOTY extras would probably also have been available as an upgrade in the same way. You still pay more money and get mounts & minions that you can't get another way, and you even do it on the same Mogstation, so I fail to see the difference. There was already stuff behind a paywall is my point; the bait-and-switch was indeed dickish of SE, but that's not the point of the thread. Someone could probably start a different thread over the transparency issue, and I would support that argument.

Nobody bought the CE for the in-game items, they bought it for that AND tons of other awesome tangible loot they got with the package. Getting CE without all that stuff is mostly pointless, but allowing us to get it anyway isn't an issue, because it has its purpose. Anything else though loses that armor, because it's surpassed the point of being there for promotional reasons, and is now simply a cash grab.


It's like buying a ticket at six flags, valid of course for every ride. You can buy your little thing that lets you skip lines, but that's cool because it has a practical reason for existing and you dont NEED it to get on the ride. Food is overpriced yeah, but whatever. I can still ride.

But then you come up to this super special side ride, that's not as cool as the super DUPER special awesome ride, but you still wanna ride it. NOPE, wasn't included in your ticket, but you can buy this $4 ticket to get on this one....wait, what the fuck, but that's not fair, what was the first goddamn ticket for then?!

That's cash shop. The super special side ride ticket isn't as useful as that other stuff, and it doesn't even cost much, you can still ride the super duper special awesome rides, but, what the fuck man, i already paid. Douche move, six flags.

[Jacost]

snip

First, I'd point out that the digital download version of the CE, and the mogstation upgrade, only carry the ingame stuff. Yet people bought it anyway. The physical package is even more expensive, and one could even argue that the physical loot is itself like a cash shop bonus.

Second, how on earth is the Sleipnir mount a "super special ride" while the Coeurl mount has "a practical purpose for existing"? They're both exclusive mounts, and they both move at the same damn speed as the normal mounts. Literally the only thing the CE gives that's "practical" is the one-time-password token (which is the main reason I got it), and that only comes with the physical edition. The digital version is equivalent to getting stuff off the cash shop.

[Roris]

First, I'd point out that the digital download version of the CE, and the mogstation upgrade, only carry the ingame stuff. Yet people bought it anyway. The physical package is even more expensive, and one could even argue that the physical loot is itself like a cash shop bonus.

Second, how on earth is the Sleipnir mount a "super special ride" while the Coeurl mount has "a practical purpose for existing"? They're both exclusive mounts, and they both move at the same damn speed as the normal mounts. If there was a cash shop exclusive dungeon your analogy would make sense, but as it is buying the CE upgrade off the mogstation and buying stuff off the cash shop is exactly the same.

No one is arguing it's not exactly the same. The difference is, physical CEs exist and offer both physical and digital items at the same time. Physical CEs always come first, most people buy physical CEs for the physical goodies themselves. Had there not been any physical CEs at all, then yes, it'd be exactly the same as offering any other item on any cash shop, except of items sold individually they're being sold as a pack I guess. Seeing how physical CEs already cost more than a regular edition to cover the costs of the additional physical items being offered, it's not really a bonus at all, people know exactly what they're paying for both physically and digitally when they buy one.

Yes, people still buy digital CEs anyway because they either like collecting stuff or to support the game and company, and yes that's still fine. Again, the qualms are about the transparency of how the cash shop stuff is being handled, especially moving forward.

[Jacost]

No one is arguing it's not exactly the same.

Pretty sure that that's exactly what Edelis is doing.

Again, the qualms are about the transparency of how the cash shop stuff is being handled, especially moving forward.

And like I've said, we are in agreement on that point.

[Kuwagami]

Second, the point you're failing to see is, if the devs only wanted to tell you an awesome story, they could have just cut out the programmers, sound directors, hired Yoshida for some cover art and sold a novel. But they didn't they made an entire game.

Heh, I'll separate it from the rest so that you can't ignore it this time

Devs create a game. They make it with an objective in mind, which is telling a story, creating challenging raids, etc etc

THEY DO CREATE A GAME FOR WHAT IT IS. And it's, well... a game. Telling a story, letting you play all the way to the end. But in the end, it's still a story. In this case with dungeons and raids (so playable content). In Tekken (example) there are fights thrown in between. Still gives a story to us.

I will admit that you willingfully ignore the point brought to you, namely the fact that a game purpose (set by devs) and a product purpose (set by marketting) aren't the same, even though they may go along the same lines (people playing)

Yes, people still buy digital CEs anyway because they either like collecting stuff or to support the game and company, and yes that's still fine. Again, the qualms are about the transparency of how the cash shop stuff is being handled, especially moving forward.

Noone is arguing that or so I believe. Transparency is the key and the reason why people felt cheated.

Though on the point that was being made, CE in its digital form is no different from CS except the "evolving bundle" concept, and yet noone even complains. When people are *still* crying over the exact same service, which is the sale of exclusive minions for extra fees. Hypocrisy at its finest, as 2 services that are exactly the same (digital only goodies for extra fees) get a different treatment.

And is 2 completely diferent things, the rewards for a collector edition or a recruiting campaing are completely fine, they are good in fact, and they don`t divide ingame experiences. The marriage on the other hand... Is 2 and possible 3 diferente experiences for players depending on how much they are willying to pay and thats bad. Period.

Trolling hard here ? CE or referral program is "2 and possible 3 diferente experiences for players depending on how much they are willying to pay" but that's fine, while the exact same thing (your own words) for marriage is bad ? get real.
CE gives you extra features for paying more. Referral does that too in a lesser extent (someone else pays for YOU to get the mount). They DO give different experience depending on how much you're willing to pay.

You may want to review your point or admit you just ran out of arguments and started saying nonsense. (I sure hope for the first option)

Now, if you, as many more white knights, belive that marriage is just vanity and optional and the only true game is to level and get gear. The recruiting campaing gives an exp bonus up to lvl 25 to characters, thats pay2win actually.

CE does the same. P2W mate, P2W
oh but wait, CE is perfectly fine. Np
/sarcasm

And this has never been about the mount or minions. Even if the paid version would just add more detail to the cutscenes with any other change, that would still be completely wrong. Dividing content into free and premium is wrong, thats the point.

are you wanting the feature for the fluff or the ceremony ?

=> want it for the ceremony : why the heck do you give a fuck about all that ?
=> want it for fluff : the feature was never made for you in the first place, Yoshida himself said that he wanted the EB to be RP only
=> don't want it : why the heck do you give a fuck about all that ?

[KodiHivaer]

snipped to save character space, apparently SE needs to fix this whole editing malarkey.

I remember in the beta of ARR that there were complaints about 1.0 legacy players having an "advantage" over others because they got to keep their stuff and character data, when in the end it didn't matter because they didn't get to keep their relics and stuff and had to do quests all over again anyway and no level cap increase after 3 years.
People also wanted 1.0 characters deleted so that they wouldn't feel "Left out" of "cool content".


Thing is... It didn't matter in the end because everyone is level capped.

People crying that this whole wedding thing is advantegous for those that buy the upgrade:

In the end:
You're still getting married and none of it will matter anymore.

/THREAD

[Roris]

when it's exactly the same.

Only exactly the same if physical CEs didn't exist, but they do.

I remember in the beta of ARR that there were complaints about 1.0 legacy players having an "advantage" over others because they got to keep their stuff and character data, when in the end it didn't matter because they didn't get to keep their relics and stuff and had to do quests all over again anyway and no level cap increase after 3 years.
People also wanted 1.0 characters deleted so that they wouldn't feel "Left out" of "cool content".


Thing is... It didn't matter in the end because everyone is level capped.

People crying that this whole wedding thing is advantegous for those that buy the upgrade:

In the end:
You're still getting married and none of it will matter anymore.

/THREAD

Except people did keep their relics and gear and it really mattered because players who got the best gear in 1.0 did get an advantage in reaching endgame and to start clearing Coil faster. Top raiders even got their Zenith faster than everyone else due to a bug with tome resets after a maintenance. If you're talking about the Legacy status, well we only pay $48 for 6 months in bulk, so if that isn't an advantage I don't know what is, though it's mostly a reward for subbing to the old version for a certain period of time but still. Never mind that once again, the issue isn't even solely about marriage but the cash shop treatment as a whole, just like the thread title "Isn't just vanity" implies, but ok.

To truly try to end this discussion. SE, moving forward at least try to tell everyone your clear monetization plans the moment you start hyping people for a feature. Don't just go an entire year "see this cool system we're planning to introduce, it's going to be cool and have these cool items to go with it" then many months later and just weeks before implementing that feature go "oh by the way you'll have pay extra for the items we got you so hyped for a year, by the way we still won't tell you their exact price until the very moment the patch goes live." If only it could be like "this is the feature we're planning, this part of the feature will be free and this part of the feature will be premium and this is exactly or around how much that premium feature is going to cost when it's implemented many months from now", that would be great. It's simple really.