Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[Izsha]

You really can't fault people for being concerned about the game spiraling down further towards the typical F2P or even a B2P treatment of an MMO, especially while the game is still P2P. That is, cutting content for a price or giving clear paid advantages, once again, paid advantages like paid retainers already offer. To give an example of a B2P treatment, TSW is B2P yet it sells its story content for a price, think of it as ARR selling 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc for different prices with only the bug fixes and system additions being free for everyone. GW2 offers its Living Story, as good or bad as your opinion on it or the game as a whole is, for free for the first weeks, after that you can only access it through their shop, which admittedly allows everything to be purchased with in game currency. Now picture ARR doing this while still maintaining a subscription. Like others have mentioned, there's a big concern that upcoming content will be monetized upon. Triple Triad, Golden Saucer tokens, premium Chocobo Racing/Rasing Chocobos or items, premium airships, premium GC squadmates, who knows maybe even premium classes and jobs.

The thing is that this happens in every monthly fee game. In 14 it's called heavensward. Expansions add stories, jobs, quests, raids, and everything else for a 1 time fee. Just like collectors ed added mounts and minions. If you didn't buy an expansion in Xi you didn't get the jobs, the new endgame, story etc. What's the difference if it's online in a shop or online as an expansion download? You give company 1 time fee on top of your monthly. They give you new stuff.

there's this idea that we deserve it because we pay a monthly fee. But fact is this is not new. This is not some horrid abuse of customers. This is absurdly common, it just comes in different packages. CE editions with skins are standard. Expansions gate crap loads of content, story, dungeons, raids, zones, classes, etc behind "paywalls". No one bats an eye at a giant content dump for money expansion. No one bats an eye paying 20$ for a special edition with vanity perks (don't forget the infinite free teleports to your choice of destination for life from CE!). But put it in a 'shop' and everyone looses their shit.

People want to talk about perspective? Look around. Unless you boycott the expansion because it should be free with our subs then get over it.

[FateAudax]

I hope you realize this silly "standard vs extra" argument of yours... snip-

Extra stuff doesn't change the fact that it is extra stuff. The original intention was allowing 2 players to tie a bond with each other that represents marriage. They made that process available to all players for free. Now, if you want extra fluff, mounts, dress or whatever then you have to pay for it. Why? You think you're entitled?

snip-

If collecting vanity items such as minions, mounts and whatnot is objective to you, then it's only your personal objective. As far as I'm concern, SE has yet to step over the line of Pay-2-Win. It's all Pay for Fluff now. People are making noise in this forum because they assume SE will head down that way. Everything is assumption base thus far. As far as I'm concern, being a collector does not entitle you to collectors item made available free for you.

Now regarding the upcoming Triple Triads, Chocobo Racing and whatever Golder Saucer thing. I can pretty much safely say that most players here (the cash-shop haters) are assuming it's gonna be made FREE for all, but please be real, those too are considered extra features. Yes, SE promised Golden Saucer but! did they mentioned it was free? I wouldn't be surprise if certain aspect of it ends up in the cash shop. I can foresee the many more threads opening up once those are out.

snip-

This ain't FFXI. Enough said.

All that being said. Since most of the people who are against cash-shop here has the "I am already paying subscription so everything new must be free" mentality, what's next? Demanding Heavensward to be free because you're already paying subs? Get real.

[Roris]

The thing is that this happens in every monthly fee game. In 14 it's called heavensward. Expansions add stories, jobs, quests, raids, and everything else for a 1 time fee. Just like collectors ed added mounts and minions. If you didn't buy an expansion in Xi you didn't get the jobs, the new endgame, story etc. What's the difference if it's online in a shop or online as an expansion download? You give company 1 time fee on top of your monthly. They give you new stuff.

there's this idea that we deserve it because we pay a monthly fee. But fact is this is not new. This is not some horrid abuse of customers. This is absurdly common, it just comes in different packages. CE editions with skins are standard. Expansions gate crap loads of content, story, dungeons, raids, zones, classes, etc behind "paywalls". No one bats an eye at a giant content dump for money expansion. No one bats an eye paying 20$ for a special edition with vanity perks (don't forget the infinite free teleports to your choice of destination for life from CE!). But put it in a 'shop' and everyone looses their shit.

People want to talk about perspective? Look around. Unless you boycott the expansion because it should be free with our subs then get over it.

Notice how no one really ever brings the expansion into the cash shop argument and really didn't until you mentioned it just now? That's because expansions usually bring enough actual new content to a game to warrant their price tag, not just for MMOs but every game since the advent of expansions. People are usually okay with expansions because of this, regardless of where they are sold, just like people are usually okay with paid DLC that brings new missions and content as long as it's priced accordingly. It's the horse armor type of DLC that makes people laugh at the idea of people actually buying it or just avoid it altogether, or both day one DLC and on disc content that's already in a single player game at launch but requires the purchase of an unlock key to access it.

Yes, because I know you'll mention this, MMOs usually include all the expansion content for everyone in the updates following an expansion launch. That's mostly due to how they work as a whole and how they are developed system wise, yet that already downloaded new content like new quests, new classes, new zones, etc. can't be accessed until a player purchases an unlock key for it. So yes, purchasing a small unlock key for an MMO expansion is by all means true, yet it's still not quite the same principle, especially since expansions are also sold physically with most of the updates included on a disc, so those costs need to be covered. Nowadays with fast internet and everything going digital, it's simply a carry over from the old days of single player game expansions and for MMOs when slower connections were the norm, even then and still nowadays physical editions also include their respective expansion registration key, just like a lot of games included and still include one. Similar deal with CE editions, physical CE editions are meant to be limited by design and include in game goodies alongside the physical goodies, yet partly because of physical media sales slowing down and of course because of companies seeking more monetization options, we saw the advent of digital editions that cost lower than physical editions but obviously only include the digital goodies. So yes, those digital CEs also fall closer on the vanity cash shop side. The free teleports you mention are also included with the digital authenticator apps, which are free.

On the topic of what you exactly quoted, B2P paid story addons aren't quite close to the content offered in a paid expansion, especially not the content an expansion brings as a whole once it's fully implemented and that's included in your expansion purchase for "free" until the next expansion comes out. Like I said, in those games the content is more or less about the same as the story content offered in an individual 2.X patch so far. Whether you consider most of those updates "mini expansions" like some do, well that's up to you to decide if you consider a single new relevant raid every 6 months or so, a single catch up raid every 6 months or so, a single new dungeon and two dungeons using already existing assets rearranged every 3 months or so, a single new primal fight every 3 months or so, some new systems and some new gear and story every 3 or so months, and the sole exception of one class and job just in this past update, expansion sized content. Especially since ARR and the 2.0 series as a whole in itself is a quasi expansion, quasi remake, quasi sequel, so it's bound to be expansion sized by the end of its lifetime, just like Heavensward won't see most of its planned lifetime content implemented until before 4.0.

So bringing the expansion into the argument really does nothing about it, it's closer to grasping at straws than what some people believe others are doing when they argue that minions and mount collection is an important aspect to them and the goals they want to achieve in game. But by all means keep glossing over what's been said about retainers already offering an advantage, it's funny how a lot of people do.

[silentwindfr]

actually, and it sadden me, cut our subs will not solve the trouble, since they will be forced to go to the F2P model for survive.

the only way to make them realize is throught the press, since reputation is really important for company like SE, the only way to make them take a step back is make enough noise for the world point them action.

sadly, i dunno if it work, all we can do is say we don't want this and still hope that Yoshida will understand that them marketing team go too far and that not the best solution. actually it's the worth solution for the futur of FF14. since a lot of Subs player on the long terms will simply drop. because what is the main reason people that pay subs prefer it? because it give you acces to the whole experience... the eternal bond as is showed is not the whole experience, the two seat chocobo is a must have, the fact that some choice was take out and put behind the cash shop is not the full experience.

let's be honest, do it's really the raid that make people stay in the game? since most of the raider that did complet the raid, will only log for one day. the truth is people log for them friend and for the useless but still important stuff like vanity, skin, mount, minion... (even getting gils) i have said in the past (and on another forum) that the last 5 years have hurt a lot the mmorpg, why that? because people only see the raid now as the main activity when it was not the case before.
worst the model of the mmorpg, that normally tend to evolve, have slowly decay because of all the marketing action that have deal a great impact on the quality and the quantity of the evolution of the genre. it's simple, you can check all the other type of game, they did all evolve in the last 5 years, when the mmorpg have only evolve on the graphical point, if you check every mmorpg of the last 5 years, most of them (if not all) did failed because of this, them lack to bring an evolution to the genre.

why that? because they are too focus to get as much money than World of Warcraft... it's idiot. it's impossible, world of warcraft did arrive at the right time and did make know the genre. did it make evolve the genre? no it did repeat over and over and over the same recipe to the point to break it. when you look the last expansion of world of warcraft... what did shock me is the fact i didn't had the feeling of an evolution... only a continuty of what they did before.

now is the time for FF14, that can be a subs game without cash shop and get a lot of money still from it. to evolve far from the model and don't try to get more money like they do. they need to build trust and transparence between them and us. but the eternal bonding will not help in this sense.

ps:about expansion, they are like a new game, that why nobody is shocked, it's a pack that will modify a lot the game to the point to make it look different. and at the same time it's a way for the player to support the company that make it.
i did said that i prefer that they make goodie physical than digital one... because digital one will have an impact on the game. physical one in counter part will have no impact on the game and can bring a lot of money, i'm sure i'm not the only one ready to buy t-shirt or stuff like this for support SE, instead to use the cash shop.

[MeiUshu]

If your goal is to gather all the minions and mounts you don't want to be gated because of a cash shop, would you want your favorite activity to be gated by a cash shop ?

I wouldnt care...this is a game, it doesnt matter really what I want is ..can I get it and at what cost if it costs me money I wont be interested in paying can I have that by not paying if yes then so I am.. if no..well then I will decide if I can stay in the game and dont care about it or is such a big fuss to me that I need to leave the game altogether.

The point is..you can get the bond equally done, with some imagination...paying is only optional..and if you cant then dont do it simple.

A big fuss over this is just dumb

Mei

[Jacost]

Extra retainers put a greater load on the server since it now has to store more data, so it makes sense to charge players for them. Of course allowing alts to be more easily used as "mules" would be the better option, but that's a different discussion.

Your entire argument about the expansion boiled down to "it's actually worth the price". You don't even know what the price is yet, so how can you judge that? For that matter, we don't know what the cost is for the gold wedding. Would you say that it's "actually worth the price" if it was $1? We don't even have total confirmation on what is in the paid plan. Like I said, I disagree with that bait-and-switch that SE pulled, but I suspect that the higher-ups gave Yoshi an order on the matter sometime in the last month or so. Yoshi has been shown to genuinely care about the game, but he doesn't run the company. What I'd like to see from SE is more transparency, rather than pointlessly bashing a business for wanting to make money.

[Izsha]

Jacost gets it. It is functionally the same thing. Just because it comes on a dvd in a box doesn't matter. You are buying the content on the dvd. And most games are digital dl anyway now. If you want an example of a cheap little story paid add on I'll point to not one but 3 from SE in their last mmo. Ffxi had 3 tiny add ons that had a side storylines, a few story battles, and a special piece of combat gear at the end (very good, generally bis gear at at the time).

Your argument basically boiled down to expand being larger scale so it's ok. That's weak, and there are examples by this very company doing smaller scale tack ons. Those 3 story pack were 10 bucks each at release for a story you do in an afternoon while an expansion was 20 bucks and expanded the world for years. Either your ok buying content beyond your sub or you arent. The scale and being worth the money are just cop outs by letting you decide on a case by case basis if you are OK with it. If that is the case then I can just say a minion for 3$, or a fancy wedding for 30 is 'worth it' and now I'm no more right than you. You can't be against buying content on principle then turn around and say expansions, add ons, CEs, and digital give aways at paid live events are ok. If you pick a side you gotta stay there, not jump ship just because it's a good deal.

[Seoulstar]

If your goal is to gather all the minions and mounts you don't want to be gated because of a cash shop, would you want your favorite activity to be gated by a cash shop ?

Now this just looks like people are looking for excuses to complain about this.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Now this just looks like people are looking for excuses to complain about this.

That is legitimate. Not everyone plays this game for raids and high end gear. Some do them for several things being hyped over the past years as Housing and Marriage. Social gamers and RPers are also gamers, customers and their way of playing and the content they enjoy is not "optional".

[Serdapi]

Anything that does not advance you in Story or iLvl is vanity content. Vanity content is not the over all goal of a game, yes it is in the game and you can put it as a goal for yourself but the game was not designed that way. The game has a story and raids that progress your character in that story, this is the main goal of the game. If you want a game that is based around Vanity content go play the Sims.

If you want to do things outside the scope of the main goal and the developers give you the option to do so but it comes with a price its fine because it does not involve further or hinder people from the main goal of the game. You choose to participate in this vanity content, in doing so you have the great option of making it better by paying more, you also have the option of not paying at all. You should be happy there is even a choice of not paying, because this content is not even close to the purpose of the game. Everyone complaining needs to get over themself, you are part of the problem. Please do not complain about vanity content in a story based, progressional game. As I said if you want to play a vanity game the Sims Online or Second Life are still around.