Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[LunaHoshino]

@LunaHoshino: without be insulting, aren't you a bit selfish? i means you want to force your own view of the game into the other...
each player is free to do whatever they want in the game and you have no right to define what it's.... them pleasure.

i know people spending time to complete the achievement, other that prefere spend time control the market, and other spend time and gils into them housing, and other people prefering working on them skin....

you have tons of way to enjoy the game... your are not the only one! respect the other pleasure as they respect your.

thanks.

People are free to "win" the game however they want. That doesn't change the fact that SE has its own definition of what constitutes "winning" in the game, and to them, collecting mounts and minions is not "winning." That is the crux of my argument. They are the creator of the game, their word is law when it comes to how the game works.

[Roris]

People are free to "win" the game however they want. That doesn't change the fact that SE has its own definition of what constitutes "winning" in the game, and to them, collecting mounts and minions is not "winning." That is the crux of my argument. They are the creator of the game, their word is law when it comes to how the game works.

Feel free to link a direct statement by SE where it explicitly mentions the exact terms to winning this game. You've already been told minions and mounts are featured in a player's Lodestone page under the Character tab and in game both their guides are also under the Character menu, meaning they're considered by SE themselves to be just as important for a character as their gear and stats. Their word is law after all and it's right there for everyone to see.

If you somehow still think progressing through the story is the only thing that counts as winning, then a PvE oriented player can't ever truly win the game either because DoH/DoLs also have their own storylines. Even the minions and mounts are provided with tiny bits of lore, therefore a player who doesn't obtain them all can't really win either because they won't ever get the game's entire story and lore. That's as silly as your argument sounds on your own personal definition of winning.

[LunaHoshino]

Feel free to link a direct statement by SE where it explicitly mentions the exact terms to winning this game.

SE has stated that the cash shop is not and will not be pay to win. The only items in the cash shop are minions, mounts and costumes.

Ergo, owning or collecting those items is not considered "winning" to SE. Simple as that.

[Roris]

SE has stated that the cash shop is not and will not be pay to win. The only items in the cash shop are minions, mounts and costumes.

Ergo, owning or collecting those items is not considered "winning" to SE. Simple as that.

So again, no direct statement from them on the exact definition of winning this game and more personal conjecture, that's nice. It's also been mentioned that paid Retainers, another thing offered in the cash shop which you seem to have forgotten, already offer a clear advantage for DoHs in both terms of crafting mats they can obtain and the maximum amount of items they can sell at once on the markets to make a profit, that might very well be almost, if not directly, P2W. About SE statements, they stated CT would be available at launch yet it wasn't, they stated housing prices would be much cheaper at the housing launch yet they weren't, they stated personal housing would be separate from FC housing yet it wasn't.

Ergo other DoW/DoM monetization venues aren't so out of the question and no one should really take their statements as set in stone and unchanging.

[NyarukoW]

S...
Ergo other DoW/DoM monetization venues aren't so out of the question and no one should really take their statements as set in stone and unchanging.

It would be naive for anyone take anything as forever unchanging. Things always change all the time. But the reality is that for a larger majority of things in game or in real life, the more they change the more they stay the same, fundamentally ground shifting change (genius inventions and great discoveries) are rare and hard to come by. But to get upset about players paying more for a supposedly more premium experience is really silly.

So far there is no evidence or indication that SE is trying to do less or provide less for the base level service. The fact that they want to provide some premium experience for pay is not a crime either. The entertainment industry across the board has always sought to provide more premium services for those willing to pay more. It is well known vegas rolls out the red carpet for the whales, and I doubt SE going to even come close to taking things to that level. But if they can get the "relative" whales to spend for this game, it is actually and indirect benefit for the rest of us players, especially if it translates to better servers, more server storage, etc. etc.

[BlaiseArath]

SE has stated that the cash shop is not and will not be pay to win. The only items in the cash shop are minions, mounts and costumes.

Ergo, owning or collecting those items is not considered "winning" to SE. Simple as that.

I don't even. If SE says it, then webster dictionary on defining the word "win" is wrong.

I think you've unlocked a new job... By your powers combined, the jobs Fanboy and White Knight become "Holy Fanboy".. Its special ability is "Invicibiltity - You are never wrong". Use this ability wisely young Knight, for The Order of the Enix relies on you to defend it from the evil horde of the elite troll legion. Never waver in your duties, less SE be crushed under the might of the Troll Legion of Abxsor.

I'm half joking BUT SRSLY BRUH! Its not "pay to win" in the definition that it gives you higher I.lv or morale gear like the most common definition of pay to win is to be interpreted by the community, I've admitted that in my previous post... But it is pay to win if you're goals are to collect the vanity/mounts/minions, which was actually a goal people said to do when someone complained there was nothing to do in XIV (back before even CT), since said items are unobtainable by any other methods.

I mean, I'm genuinely curious why I bother sometimes, I don't even consider the cash shop that much of an evil to begin with... certainly not on the level of "I want to quit"....

[NyarukoW]

... But it is pay to win if you're goals are to collect the vanity/mounts/minions, .... since said items are unobtainable by any other methods. ....

If you can not obtain it in game, and must pay to get it, what exactly are your winning in game? If you have redefined the win condition to be collected every minion/ and mount in game plus those to be obtained outside of the game, wouldn't it be fair to have to use outside methods. i.e. pay for them, for those outside of the game?

Not saying that any thing and everything should be bought by money, but is there a good reason why SE should leave money on the table that rich players are willing give them? For the most part SE is not catering to the rich players, whales, but if SE wants to be inclusive of them let them have bragging rights about how silly they are with their money buying all those minions and mounts, is this really so terrible?

[LunaHoshino]

I'm half joking BUT SRSLY BRUH! Its not "pay to win" in the definition that it gives you higher I.lv or morale gear like the most common definition of pay to win is to be interpreted by the community, I've admitted that in my previous post... But it is pay to win if you're goals are to collect the vanity/mounts/minions, which was actually a goal people said to do when someone complained there was nothing to do in XIV (back before even CT), since said items are unobtainable by any other methods.

You cannot simply redefine a word or phrase to mean what YOU want it to mean. You even admit that it is not "pay to win" under the standard definition, yet you're continuing to argue that the definition should be changed because you say so. That's not how words work, nor is it how the world in general works.

"Pay to win" has a very specific connotation in the gaming world. Buying mounts, minions and other vanity gear is not "pay to win" because it provides no advantage to the players who purchase those items.

I honestly don't care about the cash shop. I just think it's ridiculous how many people here are trying to twist the definitions of things to make themselves martyrs.