Exactly how much more do you expect us to pay?

[Nel_Celestine]

Define "GAME BREAKING", then. NOTHING they could ever sell is truly "GAME BREAKING". So what if they sell ilvl 130 gear? So what, even, if they sold ilvl 140 gear? It's OPTIONAL, you can play the game just fine without it. Just because it messes with your desire for progression instead of someone else's desire for vanity or fluff, doesn't mean it's any more or less optional or "GAME BREAKING".

Don't tell people to distinguish "need" and "want" when you can't do it yourself. Nothing in this game is "need", everything is "want". And your personal "want" is not more important than another person's "want".

Calm down a moment. If the cash shop sells any gear, it would most likely be level 1 or so with minimal to no stats. No progressional stats, no high level gear, no raids locked behind it. "No Pay to Win" means exactly that.

[BreathlessTao]

I agree with the fact that they should just come clean about everything - and clarify, when showing off new things, what's gonna be for cash and what's gonna be "free" (it's not free when we're already paying a sub). The way I see it, that's at the core of the issue for many people who are complaining: that we've been teased for months and not once did Yoshi even mention any possibilty of any of it (that is, the EB stuff) being cash shop stuff. And this following what happened to personal housing, which was basically the same story in a different setting, well... it just does not do any good to the players' trust/faith.

[Riepah]

Calm down a moment. If the cash shop sells any gear, it would most likely be level 1 or so with minimal to no stats. No progressional stats, no high level gear, no raids locked behind it. "No Pay to Win" means exactly that.

Uh. I am perfectly calm, you seem to be misunderstanding my point.

I am saying, if person A values raiding and doesn't care about vanity, while B cares about vanity and fluff but not about raiding, A would get screwed over if they added ilvl 140 items to the cash shop, while B wouldn't care, while B gets screwed if they put vanity and fluff in the cash shop, while person A doesn't care.
What person A wants is not objectively more important than what person B wants, neither of the two should get screwed over, and neither of the two should jump to SE's defense when SE decides to screw one of them over.

[Prototype909]

I agree with the fact that they should just come clean about everything - and clarify, when showing off new things, what's gonna be for cash and what's gonna be "free" (it's not free when we're already paying a sub). The way I see it, that's at the core of the issue for many people who are complaining: that we've been teased for months and not once did Yoshi even mention any possibilty of any of it (that is, the EB stuff) being cash shop stuff.

This, the problem is SE is setting up expectations and then through intentional misdirection or via the withholding of information until the point of no return, failing to deliver in the eyes of some players. The wedding stuff was shown off before the cash shop was even announced, in the future SE needs to be more transparent about this stuff so people don't start hyping it up only to be let down when it's behind a paywall.

Players shouldn't have to ask "Oh, is this an additional cash shop charge or part of my sub fee" when SE shows off new content. THEY should be the ones to clarify that when showing off new content.

[Ketsuyame]

blah blah, I keep using the "what if they sold ilvl gear" excuse.

You should stop with the hypotheticals. Thats been the basis of your argument for pages now. You're right about one thing though. We don't NEED any of this fluff. The example the guy used before me was referring to the subtitles for a movie. Now while I may want to watch the movie, I NEED to have the subtitles considering there is a language barrier. I have no personal want nor did I boast my personal want as more important as the next players. You're just being argumentative for the sake of it, and thats ok.These are the forums, right?

And to quell this vanity thing; YES, we all love vanity, yes some indulge it more than others. No, some people don't even bother with endgame. But tell me this. What person do you know pays $13-15 monthly to play dress up and nothing else in an MMO? I mean to the extent that you're adamantly fighting for? Tell me, please.

[Artiste]

I just want the moggle hat, I can pay 10€ for that, even if I think, it's a lot and a fair price should be 5€.

[Dalareid]

Truth is they won't stop, I also do not like this but as long as they don't make it pay to win I'm good, but I do wish they could offer things that should be free for free instead of charging for every single thing, like name changing it should at least be offered free the 1st the time and have charges if you want to change it yet again, but it is what it is.

[Nel_Celestine]

snip

But high level gear is clearly selling of power or 'win' where as selling a minion is not selling power and therefore according to Yoshida-san's statement "no pay to win" is not selling power so therefore is, in SE's definition, perfectly ok.

I for one, bought the minions because I am a minion collector. I figured tossing a few bucks extra at the game is fine for that because it's not hurting the economy, the raid tiers, nor other minion collectors because these items were never in game in the first place and the price to me was acceptable. The mount however? I won't be buying that. As I said on my YT show I do not see it's value at $24 or such. No unique music, no unique stance or pose, missing legs. At most, I'd offer them maybe $10 for it if I really was interested at all. Values and the like have different meanings to different people. We don't and can't always agree on everything someone else says regardless of reasons.

I am just really getting utterly frustrated with the chanting and pitchforks and the 'what ifs' and 'slippery slopes' forecasting nothing but doom and despair for everything ever because reasons. If anything makes me want to leave and quit XIV, it won't be a cash shop, it will be the why the community acts and reacts a lot of the time.

[Riepah]

You should stop with the hypotheticals. Thats been the basis of your argument for pages now.
What person do you know pays $13-15 monthly to play dress up and nothing else in an MMO? I mean to the extent that you're adamantly fighting for? Tell me, please.

I am giving you the "what if they sold ilvl gear" in an attempt to help you understand the position people who actually care about vanity, fluff, minions, mounts etc. more than about raiding are finding themselves in, but I see now that it is a hopeless endeavour.

To answer your question, the vast majority of my friends care more about housing, glamour, dyes etc. than high end content. FCOB could be behind a paywall and hardly anyone would be immediately affected, because the majority of the playerbase isn't through SCOB yet.

But high level gear is clearly selling of power or 'win' where as selling a minion is not selling power and therefore according to Yoshida-san's statement "no pay to win" is not selling power so therefore is, in SE's definition, perfectly ok.

If only everyone agreed with SE's definitions and decisions, forums would not be required at all.

Forums exist for numerous reasons - They don't exist solely to complain about everything.

Forums exist for player feedback, suggestions, bug reports. If SE always knew best, none of these things would be required.

[stoxastic]

I am just really getting utterly frustrated with the chanting and pitchforks and the 'what ifs' and 'slippery slopes' forecasting nothing but doom and despair for everything ever because reasons. If anything makes me want to leave and quit XIV, it won't be a cash shop, it will be the why the community acts and reacts a lot of the time.

This is precisely the problem. People need to calm down about the cash shop. Talking about these slippery slopes is useless. "What if they sell raid tier gear for $$$?" Of course they won't do that... That would destroy the game. SE isn't dumb. They're not going to do something that will swiftly cost them a large amount of their subscriber base. Minions/mounts, whatever, if anyone actually unsubs because of having to pay some money for a minion I'll just laugh.