Who is Optional – A Question of Consumer Value

[RaquelleAvarosa]

In my honest opinion, when I was being sold Final Fantasy XIV, I see it as a game, that is the product I was sold, whether I play it only to get all the vanity items or not is irrelevant as the game wasn't sold or marketed to you that way so anything else other than access to the game and its content released in periodic patches are what I'd consider as optional.

If a player claims that he/she only plays the game for vanity and therefore being a customer, he/she should have it all, then what happens to a player who can never clear FCoB but yet yearns for a piece of armor from FCoB (for the looks) and as a paying customer with vanity as my core gameplay style, I should be able to have the item too! and as you can see, there will be no end to such an argument.

[Magis]

In my honest opinion, when I was being sold Final Fantasy XIV, I see it as a game, that is the product I was sold, whether I play it only to get all the vanity items or not is secondary as the game wasn't sold or marketed to you that way so anything else other than access to the game and its content released in periodic patches are what I'd consider as optional.

If a player claims that he/she only plays the game for vanity and therefore being a customer, he/she should have it all, then what happens to a player who can never clear FCoB but yet yearns for a piece of armor from FCoB (for the looks) and as a paying customer with vanity as my core gameplay style, I should be able to have the item too! and as you can see, there will be no end to such an argument.

That player has every chance of getting into FCoB as every other player though. That $15 a month puts all players on equal footing and the same chance as everyone else to get that content. Have we forgot that the point of a game is the journey to get to the end as well as the items? Your argument is saying that a minion collector expects to be able to get every minion immediately or with no work. No, they know they will have to do some grinding for things like the Bluebird or Opopo minions. However they are given the same chance of getting that as every other player.... well until the cash shop which now not only means you got to pay more, but it doesn't even give a meaningful activity to get that item, it just plops it into your inventory. Grats you know how to use a credit card!

[Jacost]

However they are given the same chance of getting that as every other player.... well until the cash shop...

Everyone still has an equal chance. It's the same price for everyone, and nothing in the cash shop is available by some other means. If it's trophies you're interested in, then nothing in the cash shop should be interesting because you can't pretend you got it the "hard" way (because there isn't one).

[Riepah]

Everyone still has an equal chance. It's the same price for everyone, and nothing in the cash shop is available by some other means. If it's trophies you're interested in, then nothing in the cash shop should be interesting because you can't pretend you got it the "hard" way (because there isn't one).

So you'd be fine with ilvl 140++ items being sold in the cash shop, because everyone would have the same chance to get them as they'd be the same price?

I earn the item with effort too, by working and exchanging my work for an item that I want. Seems to be no different from earning Gil in-game and buying said minions from the Market Board.

It also seems to be no different from buying gil from RMT.


EDIT for daily post limit:

I'm more speaking in terms of legal micro-transactions but the point is that if you're truly gonna champion for the idea that optional is not optional because different players have different play-styles then we really cannot discriminate and impose our own preferred or ideal play-styles on them, it'd be hypocritical to say i support and respect the preference of players and their play-styles but I do not support the play-styles of players who prefers to buy vanity off mogstation

Preferring to buy your progress in game rather than earning it is not a "play-style", because clicking "Purchase" in the mog-station is not playing. Besides, I've a hard time trying to understand why anyone would rather spend money on stuff than get it for free, considering they're already paying each month to play to begin with.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

So you'd be fine with ilvl 140++ items being sold in the cash shop, because everyone would have the same chance to get them as they'd be the same price?



It also seems to be no different from buying gil from RMT.

That'd be plain illegal.

I'm more speaking in terms of legal micro-transactions but the point is that if you're truly gonna champion for the idea that optional is not optional because different players have different play-styles then we really cannot discriminate and impose our own preferred or ideal play-styles on them, it'd be hypocritical to say i support and respect the preference of players and their play-styles but I do not support the play-styles of players who prefers to buy vanity off mogstation

[Jacost]

So you'd be fine with ilvl 140++ items being sold in the cash shop, because everyone would have the same chance to get them as they'd be the same price?

Pay to Win is an entirely different argument, one which I am firmly against and will lose SE my sub when they go down that route. Sure, everyone has an equal chance to get hypothetical super-items, but those that are willing to do so now have a mechanical advantage over others which they can use to, say, dominate Frontlines or get Coil gear that they want for vanity, becoming cash spent to get everything handed to you. It becomes necessary to pay more to stay competitive, and in the end only those willing to pay more remain in the game.

Whereas with minion collecting and whatnot you can make a good case that cash-shop stuff doesn't count when comparing how many minions your friends have, or if you want them just for the sake of having them but aren't willing to pay... frankly, get over yourself.

[AzakaTonnerre]

Preferring to buy your progress in game rather than earning it is not a "play-style", because clicking "Purchase" in the mog-station is not playing. Besides, I've a hard time trying to understand why anyone would rather spend money on stuff than get it for free, considering they're already paying each month to play to begin with.

Using your own argument (along with what others have mentioned), if you consider your progression to be based the amount of and what items you collected, preferring to buy your progress in collecting them in game rather than earning them is not a "play-style"because clicking "Purchase" in the mog-station is not playing.

See this argument can go around in circles for hours and hours because its is literally a question of each other's semantics when discussing what is important and optional to them. And there is nothing either side is going to do to change the opinion of the other. Throwing out a definition of what "pay-to-win" means, calling the use of the cash shop "supporting the game", stating that the items do not have impact. None of that will change anyone's stance.

SE provides what they'll say they'll provide for the price they set. What's optional and what isn't, at the end of the day, is solely at SE's discretion. Like it or not, they're holding all the cards here. If you disagree with them, then don't do business with them..

This is spot on whether you agree with the cash shop or not. No matter which side of the discussion you are on this is the most relevant post in this thread.

[Riepah]

Using your own argument (along with what others have mentioned), if you consider your progression to be based the amount of and what items you collected, preferring to buy your progress in collecting them in game rather than earning them is not a "play-style"because clicking "Purchase" in the mog-station is not playing.

See this argument can literally go around in circles for hours and hours because its is literally a question of each other's semantics when discussing what is important and optional to them.

Uh... what? "based the amount of and what items you collected, preferring to buy your progress in collecting them in game rather than earning them"? Could you please translate that into a coherent sentence? If you are trying to suggest that buying a minion at a vendor for gil is the same as buying it for cash - it isn't, because that gil was actually earned by playing the game.

This is spot on whether you agree with the cash shop or not. No matter which side of the discussion you are on this is the most relevant post in this thread.

No, it isn't, because SE said they'd provide the Eternal Bond minion, back when there was no mention of cash shop, happily taking our subscription money month by month. Only a week before the patch did they suddenly set a new, additional price for what they "say they'll provide".

[RaquelleAvarosa]

That player has every chance of getting into FCoB as every other player though. That $15 a month puts all players on equal footing and the same chance as everyone else to get that content. Have we forgot that the point of a game is the journey to get to the end as well as the items? Your argument is saying that a minion collector expects to be able to get every minion immediately or with no work. No, they know they will have to do some grinding for things like the Bluebird or Opopo minions. However they are given the same chance of getting that as every other player.... well until the cash shop which now not only means you got to pay more, but it doesn't even give a meaningful activity to get that item, it just plops it into your inventory. Grats you know how to use a credit card!

Getting into is subjective, if I'm the world's worst RPG player, I could never get into FCoB let along beat the last boss and get all the vanity gear I wanted, in this case, my chances at the item I wanted is the same as someone who has an item they wanted locked behind a paywall.

In no ways am I saying that it is the same but the very same entitlement argument can be used in such a fashion as well and if players support the rationale that you need to be treated special because of your own preferred play-style then the same standards and rationale will need to be applied to a player who has an item they wanted, locked behind a skill-wall.

The purpose of a game can vary with the individual, isn't that the point of this thread? that different players have different play-style hence optional is not really optional? but all I see here is that you're imposing your own preference and play-style onto others and depriving them of enjoying their game because their play-style doesn't fit with yours.

In response to your argument of grinding and earning an item, one can also say I earn the item with effort too, by working and exchanging my hard-earned money for an item that I want. Seems to be no different from earning Gil in-game and buying said minions from the Market Board.