Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

[Ephier]

Y'all acting like jugulate in its almighty 80 potency is broken or something.

[Giantbane]

Meanwhile no one else should be stunning at all. This includes monks with Shoulder Tackle and Steel Peak and Dragoon's Leg Sweep and Spineshatter dive. This means that other two comparable melees lose TWO damage abilities while Ninja only loses one for such occasion.

The ninja doesn't lose *ANY* damage abilities in such occasions. Ninja can use Kiss of the Viper (instead of Kiss of the Wasp) and Jugulate won't stun, allowing them to use it freely.

[Giantbane]

There's no way to fix the lag between Mudras unless you live directly opposite the datacentre or buy something like BattlePing to help the latency issue, I've got it and it is smooth as butter compared to how I played it without BP, but that still doesn't mean they need to nerf NIN's, that's utter BS.

They could special case the mudras such that they wouldn't require server verification to execute, only the ninjitsu would. The trick to this, however, would be to implement it in such a way as to prevent cheating (IE: fake out the client to think it can just execute ninjitsu without mudra input) or to make it such that such cheating were easily detectable.

Or, you know, they could take the easy route and allow the player to execute skills in between the mudras, which would minimize the effect lag has upon it.

[dday3six]

Or, you know, they could take the easy route and allow the player to execute skills in between the mudras, which would minimize the effect lag has upon it.

I was honestly surprised when that wasn't the case in the first place.

[RyuDragnier]

I was honestly surprised when that wasn't the case in the first place.

It would raise a NIN's DPS even further, and we can't have that, now can we? *rolls eyes*

[Itseotle]

The only thing I can really say is wow the tears are so real... they haven't even released patch notes or detailed info and already people are saying DRG OP and NIN is dead.... seriously people

[dday3six]

It would raise a NIN's DPS even further, and we can't have that, now can we? *rolls eyes*

I'm guessing you think I don't understand Ninja's high potency is due to the downtime from Ninjutsu, Of course Ninja would need to be reworked if they could weave Mudras. However, I feel that route would have been better because Ninjutsu would be less effected by latency.

[Viridiana]

I never said they were worse. They just suffer far less DPS loss compared to other classes - If anything, the loss is nowhere near a monk or dragoon when abilities are to be held back for CC purposes. In fact, they have it far easier compared to other DPS classes. Zophar mentioned it before: Not allowed to stun? Switch poisons! And suddenly you have an extra off CD dps ability while others aren't allowed to use it.

. . .

I've already freely admitted that the DPS impact (or non-impact) for NIN is negligible unless you're for some crazy reason using Hyoton. I don't know why you keep mentioning the DPS aspect of it and completely ignoring my actual point, which is that NIN has less CC capability than almost any other class.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

. . .

I've already freely admitted that the DPS impact (or non-impact) for NIN is negligible unless you're for some crazy reason using Hyoton. I don't know why you keep mentioning the DPS aspect of it and completely ignoring my actual point, which is that NIN has less CC capability than almost any other class.

And I'm saying ninja's don't have inferior CC. Which is a point I am making you have failed to notice.

You're saying it's crazy for a ninja to use Hyoton, but use Summoner's Tri-disaster for example
You're also saying Monks have infinite silence capability, but it's a gigantic DPS loss. Much like Hyoton. Meanwhile, dragoon's can't even silence
You're saying Ninja's have terrible CC and use a paladin's Shield Bash as comparison

And I keep bringing up the DPS topic because CC abilities on DPS classes are rarely used for crowd control purposes. Same applies to ninja's. If there are reasons you aren't allowed to stun, Ninja's suffer less from this restriction. Ninja's CC isn't inferior. It has it's advantages and disadvantages like other CC abilities on DPS classes. But it's also far easier to use/less restricted, which the person I have quoted on in the first place failed to realise.

[Viridiana]

And I'm saying ninja's don't have inferior CC. Which is a point I am making you have failed to notice.

You're saying it's crazy for a ninja to use Hyoton, but use Summoner's Tri-disaster for example
You're also saying Monks have infinite silence capability, but it's a gigantic DPS loss. Much like Hyoton. Meanwhile, dragoon's can't even silence
You're saying Ninja's have terrible CC and use a paladin's Shield Bash as comparison

And I keep bringing up the DPS topic because CC abilities on DPS classes are rarely used for crowd control purposes. Same applies to ninja's. If there are reasons you aren't allowed to stun, Ninja's suffer less from this restriction. Ninja's CC isn't inferior. It has it's advantages and disadvantages like other CC abilities on DPS classes. But it's also far easier to use/less restricted, which the person I have quoted on in the first place failed to realise.

Except that NIN CC is worse than that of almost every other job. Again, I'm not saying it actually needs improvement. As far as I can tell, it's fully functional. But it's not equal to that of the other classes.

Are there situations where Hyoton could save a life (or group)? Sure, but there are more where Tri-disaster could.
Is it less of a sacrifice to have the NIN silence instead of the MNK? Sure, but that doesn't mean the MNK doesn't have a stronger silence.
I'm saying that NIN's CC ability, while fully serviceable, is less than that of the other classes. Is it unfair to compare it to Shield Bash? Maybe, but if I wanted to be really unfair I'd compare it to Holy.

The reason that DPS classes don't usually CC is because, in the cases where CC is essential, tanks and healers often provide better CC. Stuns? Let the PLD or WHM do it. Blind? Let the PLD do it. Silence? PLD/BRD rotation. Bind? SMN. All that's left for the NIN/MNK/DRG/WAR/SCH is to be ready in case someone screwed up. Yes, the NIN has more flexibility, and is less likely to lose DPS either way, but that doesn't actually address the *power* of the CC available to it.