Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

[Mantrus]

I main Ninja, and honestly Ninjas needed the nerf. A Ninja's individual damage may have been slightly less than a Monk's, but if you account for Trick Attack and not needing to use Dancing Edge with a WAR using Storm's Eye instead, their damage is another level above Monk.

Let me use hypothetical numbers to make it easier to understand. Let's say that a NIN does 450 DPS and a MNK does 460 DPS; these are pretty reasonable numbers with i115 weapons and i110 gear. Trick Attack is just a pure DPS increase associated with having a NIN, so if your party does 2000 DPS overall (the DPS check for t10), Trick Attack adds 1550 DPS every 60 seconds to everyone except the NIN, effectively making a NIN's DPS contribution become 450+25.8=475.8 DPS. Then not having to apply Dancing Edge is basically free DPS since it's easy to just have a WAR, so that's an extra 10 DPS at least? That'd make a NIN's DPS 485.8 DPS compared to a MNK's 450, so it's around 7.8% more damage than MNK.

I think taking advantage of Trick Attack and Storm's Eye were what Yoshida was saying he did not expect in the Live Letter. He said players came up with a more efficient rotation than their playtests, and considering Ninjas are incredibly straightforward (not necessarily easy) with keeping up debuffs and DoTs while using Huton > Suiton > Raiton, I think the effective complete phase out of Dancing Edge in place of Storm's Eye + Aeolian Edge and maybe coordinating X-Potions with Trick Attack was what he was not expecting. If Yoshida were to follow this line of thinking, Aeolian Edge will be getting a higher TP cost and/or lower potency if not most Ninja actions across the board.

I just hope that in the end, Ninja's overall DPS including Storm's Eye and Trick Attack is still higher than Monk's. Dragon Kick's utility is much stronger than Goad's in my opinion, especially with the TP nerf to Ninjas. Now you can basically skip TP song by using Goad on a Monk and having the Ninja fend for itself, but after the patch even if you Goad the other DPS the Ninja will require TP song so Goad would just be a waste; Goad will only be good for DPS or tanks that die and need a TP boost.

seems like a bandaid fix to me

increasing dot potency while reducing cd on some skills won't offer that much of a dps increase (unless they really overdo it) depending on how much they nerf ninjas, drg and nin might end up being the same effective contributed dps, but nin will still win out because of goad utility, while drg has none realistically.

I think this is an important point. With DRGs having no utility, there are three cases that can happen: 1.) DRGs don't get buffed enough and they're still behind in damage, 2.) DRGs are just as strong as MNK/NIN but the latter are still chosen because they have more utilty, or 3.) DRG have more damage than MNK/NIN and are chosen mostly over MNK/NIN because damage is super important. DRGs need utility to be balanced well and not be binary in result.

Also, DRGs are severely behind MNK/NIN level of DPS, even BLM, and there's no reason to take a DRG over the others. Yes, DRGs are "viable," but it's also viable to do Turn 5 in i55 gear apparently. I don't know why people are still challenging whether they need a buff or not.

[Tribunus]

Let me use hypothetical numbers

Sorry you lost me right here.