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[HakuroDK]

Ok, so tell us where can we find a two seat mount in-game, please.

And could you care to explain, too, why cosmetic stuff doesn't matter? And I mean in a logical manner, not "in my opinion" or "that's not what I play the game for". It's not part of the game? Isn't it developed with the money provided by our subs? Are we freeloaders on a F2P MMO and we didn't notice until now?

So glad you asked about the two-person mounts! There are actually two methods to get it for free:

1.) Invite your friends to play. The longer they sub, the more benefits you get. One of those benefits is a two-person mount. I don't have friends I can invite to play this game with me, does that make this option fair?

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package. Boom. two-person mount. For free. The gold package (the one that actually costs money) probably has a prettier two-person mount than the standard package, but that's an aesthetic choice.

The fact of the matter is that it does not affect gameplay. It's okay because it does not allow players to spend thousands of dollars to get endgame raid-level gear, personal housing, every Nexus and Supra in the game, and all of the achievements. That is why it's allowed. Because this is a game first and foremost and if the integrity of gameplay is compromised by paying money to bypass hard work, then the game itself collapses. Paying for extra aesthetic pieces doesn't disrupt the status quo.

snip

Seriously, what is your problem with the cash shop? Have you even seen the items on there right now? Other than Fantasias and Sleipnir, there is literally nothing good on there. It's all old holiday gear and a handful of minions. So f**king what?

There is a local chinese resturant I go to every so often called Oriental Jade. They have some very decent chinese food and they also have a gift shop for chinese nick-knacks. How much of an asshole would I appear to be if I had a meal, walked into the gift shop, grabbed a nick-knack from the gift shop, and then got appalled if they decided to charge me for it? "I ate here! How dare you charge me extra money for this!? That's unacceptable!"

The day that this game's cash shop introduces gameplay-enhancing items is the day I take your side on the issue. But that is not today and I don't see it ever happening. Because Yoshi-P knows that, if he did, over half of his playerbase would abandon ship. That's why he made a point during Fanfest to say "The cash shop will only have cosmetic items in it." That was a reassurance with the knowledge that it wouldn't happen.

Now if you want to be jaded and continue to whine about the cash shop, that's your prerogative. Just know that the cash shop isn't leaving, so if it bothers you that much, your two options are to either leave yourself or to grin and bear it, because I'm sorry. You are in a very vocal, very small minority of players that are still around and there are many more people here who are more than fine with a cosmetic-only cash shop.

[Roris]

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package.

That one doesn't come with a mount.

[Yshnal]

So glad you asked about the two-person mounts! There are actually two methods to get it for free.

1.) Invite your friends to play. The longer they sub, the more benefits you get. One of those benefits is a two-person mount. I don't have friends I can invite to play this game with me, does that make this option fair?

2.) Get the standard eternal bonding package. Boom. two-person mount. For free. The gold package (the one that actually costs money) probably has a prettier two-person mount than the standard package, but that's an aesthetic choice.

The fact of the matter is that it does not affect gameplay. It's okay because it does not allow players to spend thousands of dollars to get endgame raid-level gear, personal housing, every Nexus and Supra in the game, and all of the achievements. That is why it's allowed. Because this is a game first and foremost and if the integrity of gameplay is compromised by paying money to bypass hard work, then the game itself collapses. Paying for extra aesthetic pieces doesn't disrupt the status quo.

When I said "in-game" I meant by playing the game. It was said back when the draught chocobo was introduced that it was okay because we could earn another one via eternal bonding. Tell me, really, how we can get said chocobo. I'm still waiting.

It was you the one that brought up that the magitek armor has more features than then Slepinir mount as a reason as of why it's more than okay to have said mount after a pay wall, because we had better ones in-game. But it seems that it doesn't work for the two seat chocobo and so you dismiss it as "not affecting gameplay".

Seriously, what is your problem with the cash shop? Have you even seen the items on there right now? Other than Fantasias and Sleipnir, there is literally nothing good on there. It's all old holiday gear and a handful of minions. So f**king what?

There is a local chinese resturant I go to every so often called Oriental Jade. They have some very decent chinese food and they also have a gift shop for chinese nick-knacks. How much of an asshole would I appear to be if I had a meal, walked into the gift shop, grabbed a nick-knack from the gift shop, and then got appalled if they decided to charge me for it? "I ate here! How dare you charge me extra money for this!? That's unacceptable!"

The day that this game's cash shop introduces gameplay-enhancing items is the day I take your side on the issue. But that is not today and I don't see it ever happening. Because Yoshi-P knows that, if he did, over half of his playerbase would abandon ship. That's why he made a point during Fanfest to say "The cash shop will only have cosmetic items in it." That was a reassurance with the knowledge that it wouldn't happen.

Now if you want to be jaded and continue to whine about the cash shop, that's your prerogative. Just know that the cash shop isn't leaving, so if it bothers you that much, your two options are to either leave yourself or to grin and bear it, because I'm sorry. You are in a very vocal, very small minority of players that are still around and there are many more people here who are more than fine with a cosmetic-only cash shop.

My problem with the cash shop is that it's an obvious double-dipping feature. Past year's stuff that we could still get in-game during event? Nay, not anymore, now you have to open your wallet. Eternal bond? Okay, we got this peasant version for you unless you pay us the super awesome price of only 39.99€ (promotion!) for the normal one that we've showing you in the previews until now.

If you see that as whinning, I don't know what to tell you. Congrats? I don't know. But I know for sure that if you go to that chinese restaurant you would be mad if your ordered X meal as shown in the menu and then it lacked half of the stuff that was shown there, or if you went the next day and they tried to charge you extra for the bread that you got the day before under the same price that you're paying today for the dish that you've ordered. I know I would, and I wouldn't come back to that restaurant. Ever.

[Titor]

there is literally nothing good on there.

nothing good in there for you.

Where do we draw the line of "Optional?"

What is "Mandatory" in an MMO?

What is Optional and what is not?

I RP. Having a good RP set that represents my character, having mounts my character would ride, etc, is not really optional to me in an MMO roleplaying environment.

To me, raiding is optional. Coil is optional. Heck, even stats on gear to me is optional.

So what is this by-the-book defined 'optional' that people keep talking about? Because what is optional to me is surely not optional to you.

[HakuroDK]

snip

Sorry, I was speaking out of anger and frustration and forgot my civilities when I posted all of that.

On the cash shop are items that do not affect gameplay. By popular opinion (gauged by forum interest), the two most popular items on the cash shop are fantasia and the Sleipnir mount.

Optional content can be defined as content that is not required to progress. The primary goal of this game is to accrue better and better gear in accordance with the stat system currently implemented. Things like roleplaying (speaking as a roleplayer myself) are ultimately secondary to the game's purpose. That is not to say roleplaying is bad, but it is not the primary focus. A game where roleplaying would be the primary focus and gameplay would be secondary (or, at least, should be) would be in something like a tabletop RPG or a LARP.

Because gameplay is the primary focus of this game in accordance with its developers and its majority playerbase, anything that does not alter gameplay and is not required to access more gameplay can well be considered optional.

I am fine with paying extra for certain features as long as they do not cause game balance to tip in favor of the wealthy player. A costume, while may make a player look more unique wearing a cash shop item, would not cause any gameplay advantages.

The whole idea of a premium marriage package, so long as all the premium marriage package gets is a nicer aesthetic package of items than the standard (meaning all the items are prettier and/or all additional items are purely aesthetic), I'm fine with that because it still adheres to the idea of aesthetic-exclusive content.

All of this automatic rage at anything cash shop because of double-dipping is extremely off-putting. Maybe if that section of the community would be more civil and diplomatic about these things, I'd consider being more neutral. But right now, where there's too much yelling and screaming about this as if they're peasants crying out for the heads of the aristocracy, I feel very uncomfortable associating with those types of people. Especially when it's those same types of behaviors that attack gun control laws and women in the video game industry and the gaming community. It's virulent, it's toxic, and I want no part of it. Nothing has been solved by breaking out the torches and pitchforks (ask Frankenstein's Monster!), and yet that seems to be everyone's immediate reaction when something happens they don't like.

You want me to oppose the cash shop? Two things need to happen.

First, there needs to be a single clear violation of the aesthetics-only decree in regards to the cash shop or paid services as of the first day of patch 2.4, which involves an item or service being introduced that gives a clear advantage to gameplay by way of an item that increases stats beyond items of its item level that are not meant for flavor (i.e. the earrings which have +1 Resistance of some form) or have a special ability that gives players an unfair advantage (i.e. the Helm of Light/Moogle Cap which grants an EXP boost for classes under Level 10 or the Hermes Sandals which double Sprint duration in city-states).

Second, everyone already fighting this fight needs to show some civility by focusing exclusively on the service. Not FFXIV, not the Community Reps, not the Developers, not Yoshi-P. If you don't like FFXIV, you should not be playing FFXIV and you should not be on these forums. To be here when you have a clear dislike for FFXIV is foolish and self-destructive behavior.

Also, minor fun fact: I have not spent a cent on the cash shop and do not intend to spend any money on the premium marriage system, and until I hear news that changes my mind about either, I will continue to defend their continued existence as an option for players who wish to use them.