Dark Knight is a tank, wtf

[Ilitsa]

Simple answer? They wanted to try to entice people to tank more, so they made a class that a LOT of people were looking foward to as a dps class into a tank class in hopes that people will overlook their lack of desire to tank in lieu of finally getting the job they've been wanting for so long.

[Kuwagami]

But why take the class that is the opposite of a Paladin.

It's not. In fact, the 2 have little to no connection except in FFIV and maybe FFXI.

A class that focuses on utter destruction with dark soul rending magic to be the guy who takes hits and protects party members..

Once again that's not totally true. DRK doesn't focus on destruction (well, not only) but on the use of the darkness to kill. The difference is that you can fit it in every role (glass cannon, heavy tanky hitter, sweeper, tank, etc..) except healer.

Besides, it's not that out of this mind to have a class that thrives on sacrificing its own HP also be a tank. Just means it'll need a ton of HP.

Actually there is a shit ton of HP I don't use on my WAR (dps jewelry). If more HP can increase my damage/awesomeness while not putting my life at stake, I'm all for it.

The Soul of the Dark Knight is to protect and destroy in order to come out on top by any means necessary. In other words, I'm sure the Dark Knight story will be good, hopefully.

that's along the lines of what the devs announced for DRK. Its gameplay and story is inspired by Gatts from Berserk. For those who didn't read this manga, basically Gatts protects his friends by sacrificing his body and soul to demonic powers and often ends up bleeding to near death in the process.

They have to for even the spirit of Dark Knight to make sense as a tank.
One of their biggest abilities is using their HP to bolster their attack...to do so as a Tank? I really don't know how that's gonna happen without a HUGE revamp in the present tank HP and DEF values.

Only in FFxi. In most games, DRK just has one or 2 HP based attacks, which don't use that much HP, and a vampiric spell to regain their HP. It would work perfectly well as a tank without making it the glass cannon you want it to be.

Err... you mean FFV. Also Cecil wasn't exactly a 'tank', as he still had darkness attacks which sacrificed HP to deal extra damage.
Somehow sacrificing HP doesn't exactly scream 'tank for me'.

Of course, they could just remove that unique trait... but then it would be Dark Knight in name only. In EVERY iteration of Dark Knight, they've sacrificed HP to deal bonus damage. So... how exactly are they not a DPS?

read above


Special note :

I'm just saying that I know there will be a lot of people who will be pretty mad if gun job isn't a dps role.

People are still being delusional even though it's been a long time since gunner dps has been cancelled. Now they try to think the words were double layered ("not what you think it is") to say that because NOW people are expecting healer, it will be a dps, cuz reasons.

By that logic, Kain was also a tank (actually properly geared even more tanky than Cecil itself) so Dragoons should also be tanks.

They COULD. But they aren't and well, DRG are more know for their jump than their tankyness tbh xD

Now, through the versions of all FF, DRK have been resistant HP absorb DPS classes, with a defence mainly from using heavy armor but not much more than that, on the other hand, they usually carry black magic, defense ignoring attacks, HP sacrifice high damage attacks, HP drains, several debuffs (basically defense and resistance reductions) all things you expect to see in a DPS/Debuffer class. Armor doesn`t determine the role of a class. So "historically" DRK have been always closer to what DPS is than a tank.

Actually these things make it a good if not great fitting tank. All the others an also fit a tank role (WAR has damage/defense reduction debuffs, can output huge damages, etc... so the "dps" bit isn't really THAT convincing). Also, armor IS defining your role. At least in FFxiv. Heavy ? tank. Chainmail and leather, physical DPS. Cloth => mages. And "historically" isn't FFxi. DRK always had above average to good tankyness on top of their damage. What you're trying to say is like saying RDM is a dps because he does that, forgetting the white magic part of its job.

nothing screams DPS more than a knight sword (what greatswords of dark and holy knights are called)

all FF iterations had greatswords to tanks. Knights, Paladins, Rune knights, special jobs for FFT, and DRK, were all super tanky jobs. It doesn't matter how high their damages were, they were tanks. not dps.

Simple answer? They wanted to try to entice people to tank more, so they made a class that a LOT of people were looking foward to as a dps class into a tank class in hopes that people will overlook their lack of desire to tank in lieu of finally getting the job they've been wanting for so long.

nice try but no. FFxi people are not the majority afaik, and the other don't give a damn about its role. Also, people won't tank because a class they wanted appeared as a tank if they don't like to tank. You won't make me play mage dps if RDM or BLU come as a dps, because I find it boring as fuck. I'll level them up to max level for story and be done with them, back to tanking because that's what I love. it will be the same. People will play the new shiny tank/heal/whatever the time to level up to max level, be bored because they dislike the role, and go back to their main.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

nice try but no. FFxi people are not the majority afaik, and the other don't give a damn about its role. Also, people won't tank because a class they wanted appeared as a tank if they don't like to tank. You won't make me play mage dps if RDM or BLU come as a dps, because I find it boring as fuck. I'll level them up to max level for story and be done with them, back to tanking because that's what I love. it will be the same. People will play the new shiny tank/heal/whatever the time to level up to max level, be bored because they dislike the role, and go back to their main.

Like NIN.


Why are we discussing over this again? >.< The dev team decided it's going to be a tank so it'll be a tank. It's their game, so their rules. Even though the DRK has a background story in several FF's titles, it doesn't mean that they gotta copy-paste that concept here. No need to initiate a nerdrage about this. I like the idea of a tank DRK because... why not? I'm looking forward to it.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Actually these things make it a good if not great fitting tank. All the others an also fit a tank role (WAR has damage/defense reduction debuffs, can output huge damages, etc... so the "dps" bit isn't really THAT convincing). Also, armor IS defining your role. At least in FFxiv. Heavy ? tank. Chainmail and leather, physical DPS. Cloth => mages. And "historically" isn't FFxi. DRK always had above average to good tankyness on top of their damage. What you're trying to say is like saying RDM is a dps because he does that, forgetting the white magic part of its job.



all FF iterations had greatswords to tanks. Knights, Paladins, Rune knights, special jobs for FFT, and DRK, were all super tanky jobs. It doesn't matter how high their damages were, they were tanks. not dps.

Completely wrong.

Anything tanking with those traits alone is barely better than a pure DPS with a bit of defence, actually, a healer would be tankier than that description and we know a tank has to be tankier than a healer, so no. Armor doesn`t define roles, this is the most important part of it all. In any game, your armor is there to support your role, yes, but not to limit you to it. An archer can wear heavier armor, and no, it wont become a tank.

All DRK through FF history have been DPS/Debuffers. In no way most of them have been tanks. Saying that FFT DRK for example was a good tank is simply put not having played the game or not dig deep enough on it to reach/build the true tanks. DRK actually don`t even fit any of the "roles" of FFXIV if we base ourselves on what DRK have been through the history of FFs, we shoud have a "Support role" and put the DRK as a debuffer with DPS inclinations. Anyway, DRK is far closer to a DPS class than a tank through the FF history, which for the DRK starts in FFII and surprise, amazing spear DPS and black magic caster and this is something is mostly respected through the series but some weird exceptions as Cecil, which is still good at DPS, in fact, Darkness was an HP trade per damage and in the remake is a strenght HP trade buff... In western role games, a FF DRK would be a heavy armored swordspell or battlemage. And the HP trades are closer to blood sacrifices typical of Berserker classes... DRK screams DPS as a concept.
Heavy armor and an average defense with HP absorb is not good enough for a Tank,

[Kuwagami]

Anything tanking with those traits alone is barely better than a pure DPS with a bit of defence, actually, a healer would be tankier than that description and we know a tank has to be tankier than a healer, so no. Armor doesn`t define roles, this is the most important part of it all. In any game, your armor is there to support your role, yes, but not to limit you to it. An archer can wear heavier armor, and no, it wont become a tank.

I had highlighted the traits making it a viable tank but maybe you missed it... as for the armor, I also think you missed

At least in FFxiv.

show me where I'm wrong.

Also, while mages could wear heavier armor (some games feature a tank/heal in heavy armor, or even they could wear leather armors unless lore reasons), an archer in heavy armor would be just dumb. Archers (monks, ninjas as well) are supposed to be really mobile, and you can't do that in heavy armor. Even if this game has no load slow.

Edit :

Heavy armor and an average defense with HP absorb is not good enough for a Tank,

So in fact you just completely ignored this game in your thought process. In this game, heavy armor = heavy defense. And heavy defense + HP absorb + defensive use of darkness IS good enough for a tank.

other stuff

FF3 DRK had good attack, good defense and used low level White magic. Not a dps/debuffer.
in FFX-2, it had good attack, good defense and some debuffs but the only one usable here would be Bio.
Cid was tanky because reasons, nothing to do with being a DRK.
for FFT : fell knight and deathknight had high HP and were absorbing HP and MP. The DRK available for all had lower HP but still could absorb HP&MP, plus the sacrificial moves. All could wear tank specific armors
Bravery Default (not technically FF) can raise its defense and attack significantly when taking damage and has good HP. They also have a high defense. Some sacrificial moves but still no debuffs.
Final Fantasy Dimensions' DRK has some tanking abilities (absorb HP and Draw attacks)
FFXII's Uhlan has a damage and defense debuff (just like WAR here...), elemental weakness (doesn't exist here) debuff and confuse (won't happen here or would be useless) but still has heavy defense and high HP



For all those though, you need to remember that they were solo game, in which there were no "real" tank job, as the goal is to deal with the enemies as quickly as possible. That leads to high damaging roles with more or less tankyness. Among them, DRK usually had a lot of tankyness, hence why it's more fitting a tank role than many others.


Then yeah, FFxi :
glass cannon and many debuffs. But you know, FFxi isn't "FF history"


TLDR : FFxi's DRK isn't FF "historical" DRK

[Gardes]

Whatever the theme/lore/reasoning/flavor the drk has, I want drk to have a wildly different play style to pld and war since they both have very similar setups:

- 1 enmity combo
- 1 aoe enmity
- stances
- small and big mitigation (ram/ib and venge/sentinel)
- etc

I want to see huge play style differences. Like blm vs smn different.

[Elazu]

Welcome to last October.

[Viridiana]

Welcome to last October.

Last October was the launch of the Eorzea Database and the world transfer system, as well as the housing preview. Nothing about DRK last October. >_>

[Fayto]

People seriously need to study up on FF lore because they got DRK wrong as XI's DRK is a rare find.

[lolirocco]

They took Titan from me.
They took Ninja from me too.
And they gave us Dark Knight.
I'm not mad, I would just like to see a tank that doesn't need heavy armor to do his job.