Enhancements to log to support Damage Per Second (DPS) Measuring Tool

[Alistaire]

The OP actually asked for SE to take a positive stance about parsers, here:

That's what I'm taking the "against" stance here.

Good for you. And it seems most other people here are disagreeing with you. And for good reason.

[Canadane]

We all know when tanks or healers aren't up to scratch, why not dps? But adversely, a tank really knows when he messes up, and can seek advice and help ... why exclude dps?

There are dps checks in many fights.
Ifrits nails. Titans heart. Enrage timers. Heavensfall. Shiva's adds. The list goes on and on.
If you cannot pass these, then there is a dps issue and the dps needs to learn to get better. Unfortunately they will hold everyone back until they do. A tank and a healer can push out as much as they want but unless the DDs are doing their job it won't get you far. Exact same deal if a tnak can't hold enmity/swap effectively or a healer cannot react fast enough.

A parse or the knowledge of the exact dps each is putting out isn't needed. When you know there's a dps issue a generic glance in the direction of your damage dealers will usually be enough to show you who's slacking.

[NorthernLadMSP]

I would support this, but only on an individual basis. Meaning, after the fight ends, you can check your own individual DPS numbers, but not see anyone else's.

This would promote self awareness, and potentially learning to get better if you see your numbers and know they aren't up to par. But, it would also NOT promote using numbers to exclude people and/or create a toxic environment.

I used to play DCUO, and at the end of every battle, the parties numbers would show up for everyone to see. What this did was create a place where certain jobs were specifically excluded/banned from parties, i.e. "looking for DPS for xxx, no sorcery!"

[roninoftagrm]

If you want to know how your DPS is, just look at how fast the mobs are dying. That's a far more accurate measurement than any number some parser can give you.


As for just adding more detail to the log, I don't think making it work better with parsers would be a good reason for it, and I don't see much other reason for it.

you sir have it right, if you kill fast then your doing good, if your killing slow you are likely missing and still just following timers for the combos

[roninoftagrm]

I would support this, but only on an individual basis. Meaning, after the fight ends, you can check your own individual DPS numbers, but not see anyone else's.

This would promote self awareness, and potentially learning to get better if you see your numbers and know they aren't up to par. But, it would also NOT promote using numbers to exclude people and/or create a toxic environment.

I used to play DCUO, and at the end of every battle, the parties numbers would show up for everyone to see. What this did was create a place where certain jobs were specifically excluded/banned from parties, i.e. "looking for DPS for xxx, no sorcery!"

no, no, and no, dcuo and other action based games like it are using the arcade ranking system or score system from fps games, we really dont need that

[Viridiana]

you sir have it right, if you kill fast then your doing good, if your killing slow you are likely missing and still just following timers for the combos

To quote you: "no, no, and no." Mobs dying quickly only means that the group's combined dps is good. It's entirely possible to have good group dps while one of the players is doing horrible. Mobs dying slowly can also mean any number of things depending on mechanics. Or, yes, it can mean that your DD are bad and need improvements, but what the heck does "missing and still just following timers for the combos" even mean to a BRD or BLM? You're going to want to be able to tell the guy who isn't doing well what he's doing wrong, and you're gonna need more info than "mobs are dying slow whenever you're around."

[roninoftagrm]

even so its meant to be a group effort. If you see for the first time someone using skills in an aion weave fashion, then sure kick em from group, because they think they'll steal the aggro(dps), want to use less tp(less experienced tank), or using macro combos which even i wouldnt use in the higher difficulty runs.

One problem from reading the forums is that i dont see a min/max time to beat/burn/destroy x add/boss/mechanic before wipe/danger zone, which would include links to each rotation reborn thread, presumed dps over x time, and combined dps for each and every part of a boss fight(across say all dps combinations possible), its just "do the guides and done" mentally

and a blm could screw up, its called forgetting to transpose when things go bad and dipping when he/she is stuck in AF and needs mp(it can happen)

[Viridiana]

I have no idea what that last post is trying to say, aside from the last paragraph. . .

And nothing that you said even contradicts my point. Yes, DPS is meant to be a group effort. If I notice that one member of the group isn't pulling his weight, it's my duty as a member of the group to help him, is it not? How am I supposed to do that if I can't tell what he's doing wrong? Or worse, what if I can tell that *someone* in the group of four needs to improve, but not which of the four? Am I supposed to record our attempts until I can figure out which player needs help? When there's no guarantee that the issue would even present itself to a recording?

[Deelo]

A parse or the knowledge of the exact dps each is putting out isn't needed. When you know there's a dps issue a generic glance in the direction of your damage dealers will usually be enough to show you who's slacking.

Do you mean by checking their gear? That's even worse... Many many many times, I've seen i110+ do much worse than the guy who's i99~. There is no way to tell who's the bad seed without parsing it or kicking each person one by one.