Tesudo, SE inadvertently admitting the tank LB is worthless?

[Ehayte]

I know people who have won after a Healer's LB3 saved the party from a wipe. Don't be dissing Pulse of Life. It's a really really good LB3 in a pinch! I mean, admittedly, there should be no weakness after use, but that's the only drawback.

Yeah, I mean anecdotally it can work and you can still get a clear, but DPS limit break is built INTO almost all coil encounters, whereas the tank and healer break are long-shot save-your-butt moves that work about 10% of the time.

[HakuroDK]

Yeah, I mean anecdotally it can work and you can still get a clear, but DPS limit break is built INTO almost all coil encounters, whereas the tank and healer break are long-shot save-your-butt moves that work about 10% of the time.

Easy remedy for Pulse of Life. Mass Revival, 100% HP/MP/TP Recovery, no Weakness. It's something that can only ever be used once, so why not make it count?

As for Last Bastion, that needs to last a hell of a lot longer than 12 seconds and have more of an effect besides 50% damage mitigation.

Limit Breaks are supposed to be those otherwise gamebreaking abilities that you can only use once, maybe twice in a single run of anything. Final Heaven and Meteor do a great job of that. But Pulse of Life is kinda lacking a bit and Last Bastion is obscenely situational.

[RiceisNice]

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It's not a really big deal in most cases, but it's still nice to have.

Why not caster LB2 for extra damage on pull? The 20% defense buff will hardly mean anything for the first 5 seconds of the fight.

...Also, Healer's LB3 is fine as-is. Mass Revive is a beautiful thing. It's just LB1 and LB2 that need reworking. Also, an option to use LB1 and LB2 when LB2 and LB3 are active, respectively, would be fantastic.

The fact it is LB3 makes it incredibly situational to have (far into a fight), on top of that, there's no invincibility frames for those that get revived (making timing very particular, esp when they are coming up with weakness/BoD) and a 7 second animation lock for the user (which more or less is a death sentence for most encounters). Even for a fight like Shiva this can lead to trouble with either mistiming it or just not being able to time it at all.

Easy remedy for Pulse of Life. Mass Revival, 100% HP/MP/TP Recovery, no Weakness. It's something that can only ever be used once, so why not make it count?

It already revives you with 100% hp, mp and tp. The problem is the lack of invincbility frames topped from that ressurection, coupled with weakness, and the caster having an animation lock of 7 seconds. No one can reliably avoid AoE damage that spells death the moment you get caught in it, or puts you in a very awkward spot to dance (such as landslides for the former, or reverse-titan bomb pattern on shiva in latter, esp since its very easy to overlap those AoEs and die.)

[JayCommon]

It already revives you with 100% hp, mp and tp. The problem is the lack of invincbility frames topped from that ressurection, coupled with weakness, and the caster having an animation lock of 7 seconds. No one can reliably avoid AoE damage that spells death the moment you get caught in it, or puts you in a very awkward spot to dance (such as landslides for the former, or reverse-titan bomb pattern on shiva in latter, esp since its very easy to overlap those AoEs and die.)

I don't feel like everyone being raised should get the invincibility frames, but that is just my opinion. I feel like the person who just saved the ass of (up to) 7 more players should be the one that is invincible inside of the animation lock. Like already stated, 90% of the time you use a Healer LB3 all it does is prolong the inevitable wipe. In over a year of maining Bard through all endgame while it is relevant, I can count on both hands the amount of times this has saved the raid and actually produced a win. But it's fine the way it is, because every extra second of time you get into a fight you are learning is beneficial when in progression. 7 people who died shouldn't be granted with invincibility, especially when the raise is almost instant with no pop-ups notifications to click. They should just be aware of it happening and be ready to continue to fight.

But every time I saved the group for a win, I died for doing it. It's not that big of a deal, but it feels like a punishment to save everyone. I don't like dying just as much as anyone else, and the fact that it's going to happen when I use it doesn't stop me from doing it when the situation calls for it, but it still sucks no matter what spin you put on it.

*sorry for the long segway...*

But this gets me to the actual point I would like to see changed with the LB3. The 100% HP/MP/TP refill. It's awesome. However why does it not refill the MP/TP of people that are actually still alive when the LB3 is used? This makes no sense to me. This is a very situational thing, but it matters nonetheless.

Example: Shiva EX. When we were learning we had a SMN with us in a group I was in. Multiple DPS were dying to random dumb things (because....learning) and I had to keep ballad up for a lot of the fight to help the WHM. The WHM/SCH ended up both getting killed (I think to a Glacier Bash) and the SMN/MT and I were the only ones alive. PLD popped HG and I used LB3. SMN swiftcast raise the WHM right before I was able to get LB3 off and the WHM accepts it, and takes the raise. WHM is revived with low HP/MP while everyone else gets the full benefit of the LB3. Almost directly after all of this we got the triple stack of Absolute Zero. I couldn't even put up a Ballad for that WHM because I don't get MP refilled while I'm still alive, and I'm skirting around sub-100 TP for minutes because I never had the chance to Paeon for 30 seconds or so. By the time that triple AZ was over, everyone that got revived by the LB was dead again because the WHM just didn't have enough MP for potent AOE heals. Succor can only do so much when 5 weakness characters are eating 2k damage 3 times....And basically the SMN kind of screwed up the run because he was playing good and doing what he should have been doing, reacting quickly to a deteriorating situation.


TL ; DR: Healer LB3 should fully apply to everyone in the party regardless if they are alive or dead. MP/TP refills don't apply to people that are alive when LB3 is cast. This makes absolutely no sense.

[RiceisNice]

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The thing is that when you do ressurect them with LB3, more often than not the location they have resurrected on will be less than ideal, and they will die to an incoming mechanic that they cannot move out of the way fast enough because of the lack of mercy-invincibility frames.

Back to Shiva example, I was the bard about 30% in. We had a near total party wipe save for me and the warrior tank, with perma frost going right into bow phase. The tank's used up holmygang and is going to die to the perma frost DoT if he doesn't get a heal. I can top him off with LB3 and resurrect the entire party, but they're all scattered in less than ideal locations that they cannot avoid the 270* bow AoE, nor could the tank preemptively move her because this followed up immediately after permafrost. I cant delay LB3 for it to be more ideal because the tank would've died to the DoT

I mean ideally, we should've never been in that situation to begin with to make LB3 not an option, but that's also part of the reason why it so bleh and incredibly situational for encounters, whether it be farm or progression.

[JayCommon]

snip

I can definitely see your point. I wasn't really trying to argue your point about the invincibility frames I guess, maybe should have worded that differently.

What I was trying to get at, is the LB3 is a healer LB, and currently it's a better idea for a healer to sac their self and let the BRD do it because me having no MP is a much better idea than one healer maybe having none when he uses it. I just can't see any reasoning for why alive players can't benefit from the whole LB3.