[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Akiza]

Yeah, no, that reason is both subjective and baseless, and again redesigning the class would require much rework. I believe the more mundane reason is the current class/job system isn't giving them any real benefits, so they want to change it, but first test it with a new class. Similar to how WoW tested out "hero" classes with the death knight.

The team working on 3.0 is different from 2.0 so it won't require that much work to redesign the Summoner since people have been complaining about the lack of Identity and Iconic Image for the Summoner since it was revealed. I wouldn't be surprised if Summoner became a Baseless Job along with evey other Job in 3.0 since Classes are pointless after lvl 30 anyways.

[dday3six]

The team working on 3.0 is different from 2.0 so it won't require that much work to redesign the Summoner since people have been complaining about the lack of Identity and Iconic Image for the Summoner since it was revealed. I wouldn't be surprised if Summoner became a Baseless Job along with evey other Job in 3.0 since Classes are pointless after lvl 30 anyways.

SE are not going to tear down the current class system. If anything they will simply not apply it to future jobs. Cross-Class becomes a sloppy mess without it, and adding "new" skills to take the place of current cross skills, rather than actual new ones, is a waste.

You literally want the game and all it's balance to be destroyed to play a single player iteration of Summoner in an MMO, and worst yet you cannot fathom why that has no chance of happening...

[BloodPact]

SE are not going to tear down the current class system. If anything they will simply not apply it to future jobs. Cross-Class becomes a sloppy mess without it, and adding "new" skills to take the place of current cross skills, rather than actual new ones, is a waste.

You literally want the game and all it's balance to be destroyed to play a single player iteration of Summoner in an MMO, and worst yet you cannot fathom why that has no chance of happening...

This has been going for over 20 pages... Let's just stop responding to what are obviously delusional (and I'm being nice) posts. He'd have to start replying to his own posts (which honestly wouldn't surprise me).

[Asheilin]

SE are not going to tear down the current class system. If anything they will simply not apply it to future jobs. Cross-Class becomes a sloppy mess without it, and adding "new" skills to take the place of current cross skills, rather than actual new ones, is a waste.

You literally want the game and all it's balance to be destroyed to play a single player iteration of Summoner in an MMO, and worst yet you cannot fathom why that has no chance of happening...

I know EVERYONE hates it when someone brings up XI in this forum, but Summoner in XI WAS a Single Player Iteration; they were 100% self reliant! However, they really shown when they grouped up via their Summons Buffs/debuffs for their party. They had actions themselves they could cast, most were cross class skills via SubJob, but they also were totally in micromanagement of their summon; every Primal had a physical autoattack, "Gust Slash" would be exicuted via Player Command. Summoner was the Ultimate Pet Class in XI, but it was useless unless the PLAYER was doing their job!
physical attack of a primal at cap was only like 1% of any regular hit; no using their abilities meant you'd be kicked from party faster then you could summon a different primal.

[BloodPact]

I know EVERYONE hates it when someone brings up XI in this forum, but Summoner in XI WAS a Single Player Iteration; they were 100% self reliant! However, they really shown when they grouped up via their Summons Buffs/debuffs for their party. They had actions themselves they could cast, most were cross class skills via SubJob, but they also were totally in micromanagement of their summon; every Primal had a physical autoattack, "Gust Slash" would be exicuted via Player Command. Summoner was the Ultimate Pet Class in XI, but it was useless unless the PLAYER was doing their job!
physical attack of a primal at cap was only like 1% of any regular hit; no using their abilities meant you'd be kicked from party faster then you could summon a different primal.

First, Summoner in XI doesn't have a single spell outside of their summons. They can't do anything at all except auto-attack besides the use of Summoning Magic. In XI, you can micromanage the pet like that because of how the battle system works. It's SUPER slow; you basically have like 40 seconds between each Bloodpact (avatar/egi skill). In here you are using a skill every ~3 seconds, there are a lot of stuff you have to be looking for besides your own skills, as battles in this game are not the extremely boring 30 minute tank and spanks that XI endgame provides, you have a lot of AoEs coming at you, tons of adds, a lot of different debuffs attached to attacks that you need to be aware of. It just doesn't compare. The XI version will never work in here, and up until I left in Wings of The Goddess, didn't work in XI as well. Summoner was the "oh well, no White Mage, guess we'll get that Summoner who's been flagged looking for party for 2 hours" job.

[Camalott]

First, Summoner in XI doesn't have a single spell outside of their summons.

This highlights my only qualms with the disparity between the XI version of SMN - and XIV's version. Summoner's job WAS the pets.

That is my personal disparity. Not an overall condemnation of the XIV version of the SMN.

I dislike how I personally feel that Egi's are an afterthought - and not really a core function. They (supposedly) account for 40% of your overall DPS which is sizable and very important to properly maintain and execute. It just personally feels superficial to me. It almost feels like DRG in XI. DRG does things, Wyvren does things. Together they make the whole. Apart they are gimped. Ridiculously long recast timer on the Wyvren withstanding (we don't have that problem), we're practically identical in overall effect. Again, personal feelings.

And my personal feelings are not enough to justify any kind of sweeping change the job or how it functions.

[Bishop81]

This highlights my only qualms with the disparity between the XI version of SMN - and XIV's version. Summoner's job WAS the pets.

That is my personal disparity. Not an overall condemnation of the XIV version of the SMN.

I dislike how I personally feel that Egi's are an afterthought - and not really a core function.

...

And my personal feelings are not enough to justify any kind of sweeping change the job or how it functions.

Just curious, what do you feel is main problem here? Not enough "focus" on the Primals?

Currently, the egis are "pets". Compared to summons of old school FF, they pale in comparison. Is that the issue?

Would you be happier if the summons were more "impressive"? (Let's leave aside the issue of balance and how it will work with the game for now.)

PS: I grudgingly play SMN, I rather be an ACN but that doesn't work for "serious" content.

[Camalott]

Just curious, what do you feel is main problem here? Not enough "focus" on the Primals?

Pretty much.

In FFXI, the Primals/Egi/Avatars were your job. You were useless without one - whereas you are simply gimped in XIV if you are without one. Failure or success was obtained in your selection of avatar, when to execute which BloodPact, proper positioning, etc.

I would be very happy if the Arcanist component were separated from the Summoner component and they became two critically different jobs. Arcanist would enjoy the DoT's and whatnot - while Summoner would become pet reliant and more utility based like the BRD. Make it where a lot of thought goes into which Egi you summon and what abilities you deploy from said summon. Right now it's simply CD management on the pets with little thought to the contrary.

Please, please, please note that I am a baby SMN in FFXIV. However, I've read enough forum posts from veteran SMN that tend to collaborate this thought process. I may be absolutely incorrect in all of it. While I try not to jump to long reaching conclusions, even my limited time as a SMN has brought me to my current observations that Egi's feel like an afterthought that is holding back the potential of the Arcanist, and Arcanist is holding back the Summoner.

Holding them back from what? Nothing more than what I want them to be. This is not necessarily what they should be. Just what i would like them to be.

[Bishop81]

Pretty much.

In FFXI, the Primals/Egi/Avatars were your job. You were useless without one - whereas you are simply gimped in XIV if you are without one. Failure or success was obtained in your selection of avatar, when to execute which BloodPact, proper positioning, etc.

...

Well, one idea I can think of is to have summons be temporary.

• summon one when you get into combat
• it drains your mana while it's out and about
• you spend most of your time managing it's abilities and your mana reserves
• all your attacks are via your summon.

PS: Personally I'm not very happy with ACN having DoTs either. They are tacticians, they should be "re-arranging" the battlefield to various effects - maybe via the Carbuncle; where the Carbuncle "sets up" and the ACN does the "finishing touches".

[Camalott]

Well, one idea I can think of is to have summons be temporary.

• summon one when you get into combat
• it drains your mana while it's out and about
• you spend most of your time managing it's abilities and your mana reserves
• all your attacks are via your summon.

What you described is pretty much exactly how they worked in FFXI. Which I would honestly be all for.

On the note of the ACN and DoTs, I only say keep them because they fit the theme of essentially using disease as a weapon. That seems to be the ACN 'theme.' I don't agree with it. It doesn't seem as tactical as it does more so seem like biological warfare.

Honestly, ACN always felt more like it should be a utility class that helps enhance battlefield effectiveness and controls the flow of combat. Just like how the BRD did in FFXI. Maybe throw in some trapper abilities for tactical flare.