So Second Coil has been destroyed

[Symbiant]

This game has been focused around casual players since launch, so I'm not sure why these changes were unexpected. The unfortunate truth is that hardcore raiders are a minority and cannot support a game by themselves any more (see: Wildstar).

Na Wildstar had a lot more probs. Hardcore was not the primary cause of its failure.

FFXI been around for 12 yrs because of hardcore.

I also think that peoples view of casual is a bit skewed and to be honest I get a bit tired of the association between lack of skill and the casual name.

Casual does not mean lack of skill it basically means they can't adhere to a specified amount of play time / schedule.

Hardcore does not mean skilled. It just means that these people have quite a bit more time to dedicate to the game and can adhere to most schedules.

An example might see someone that has every novus / nexus. That does not mean that this person is skilled and it does not mean this person is not skilled but, it does mean they have more time then most. A person that has this much time is hardcore.

You can have a casual raiding group and a hardcore raiding group. The casual raiding group could actually be more skilled then the hardcore raiding group.

So let us stop this bs about casual = lack of skill and hardcore = skill.

Maybe the forums need to make the true separation and that is separation of skill and not time.

So now have "Inept" Players and "Transcended" players. Because a hardcore can be Inept or a Transcended player and the same goes for casual.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

An example might see someone that has every novus / nexus. That does not mean that this person is skilled and it does not mean this person is not skilled but, it does mean they have more time then most.

true.dat

I lost count of all the Dragoons with Nexus spamming Ring of Thorns to do AoE damage.

[Ehayte]

So let us stop this bs about casual = lack of skill and hardcore = skill.

I'd have to argue that the most common definition wouldn't apply to time spent in game, but rather would apply to attitude of the gamer.

Casual = Doesn't take the game seriously, lax attitude, will watch TV in coil, etc.

Hardcore = Is very serious about one aspect of the game or another and has laser focus while partaking in that portion of the game.

i.e. a Hardcore crafter might research the nuances of getting the optimal gearset and crafting rotation to do the 4 star synths, while the same person might be a casual raider, who is just now starting on BCoB

Alternatively, someone could be a hardcore raider who spent 100 hours spritibonding to pay a hardcore crafter to make them crafted armor for FCoB to clear it really really fast. While they have a level 50 BSM because they think the gearset looks cool, and no other crafters to level 15, making them a casual crafter.

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I took 2 days off work after patch so that my coil group and I could try to get server first." I would say, "Wow you are hard-core!."

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I play like 7 hours a day but mostly just putz around looking at landscapes, not really accomplishing anything." I would say, "Oh, so you are pretty casual?"

[BloodPact]

I'd have to argue that the most common definition wouldn't apply to time spent in game, but rather would apply to attitude of the gamer.

Casual = Doesn't take the game seriously, lax attitude, will watch TV in coil, etc.

Hardcore = Is very serious about one aspect of the game or another and has laser focus while partaking in that portion of the game.

i.e. a Hardcore crafter might research the nuances of getting the optimal gearset and crafting rotation to do the 4 star synths, while the same person might be a casual raider, who is just now starting on BCoB

Alternatively, someone could be a hardcore raider who spent 100 hours spritibonding to pay a hardcore crafter to make them crafted armor for FCoB to clear it really really fast. While they have a level 50 BSM because they think the gearset looks cool, and no other crafters to level 15, making them a casual crafter.

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I took 2 days off work after patch so that my coil group and I could try to get server first." I would say, "Wow you are hard-core!."

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I play like 7 hours a day but mostly just putz around looking at landscapes, not really accomplishing anything." I would say, "Oh, so you are pretty casual?"

That's one way to look at it, though usually the terms refer to the meanings Sybmiant mentioned - an assessment of the player based on time invested in-game. Unfortunately, they are often misused to grade a players proficiency level, which is obviously wrong, since as we all know, hardcore and skilled or casual and average, inept / incompetent are not exclusive to each other.

[Hayward]

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I took 2 days off work after patch so that my coil group and I could try to get server first." I would say, "Wow you are hard-core!."

If I talk to someone who says, "Yeah dude, I play like 7 hours a day but mostly just putz around looking at landscapes, not really accomplishing anything." I would say, "Oh, so you are pretty casual?"

I'm sorry, but anyone who takes 2 days off work for THAT reason isn't hardcore. That person is a damn fool throwing away money for a meaningless status.

[Senliten]

I'm sorry, but anyone who takes 2 days off work for THAT reason isn't hardcore. That person is a damn fool throwing away money for a meaningless status.

Seconded. If anything, pulling a 9 to 5, coming home, and still doing progression with what little time you may be able to have, is more hardcore than throwing ones life away for two days on content release and risking an income over some silly pixel status. XD

[RiceisNice]

Seconded. If anything, pulling a 9 to 5, coming home, and still doing progression with what little time you may be able to have, is more hardcore than throwing ones life away for two days on content release and risking an income over some silly pixel status. XD

I'm sorry, but anyone who takes 2 days off work for THAT reason isn't hardcore. That person is a damn fool throwing away money for a meaningless status.

Both examples show dedication to the game, which imo shows that the player is "hardcore". However, the difference is the amount of time they can commit. The one that can only afford to play 3-4 would hypothetically be gated by finding 7 other players who share his/her schedule, excluding that they also need to competent to progress in the raid.

[Symbiant]

SNIP."

90% of the forum post from supposed casuals state "they have a life and they don't have time to play and beat the stuff" (translation I lack the skill to beat the said stuff").

By true definition you statement is correct and so is mine but that is not whats happening on these forums. What is happening is there is a skill gap and the people with lack of skill are saying they are casuals and blaming it on time spent in the game instead of just accepting that they just lack the skill. The people with skill are called hardcore because the people without skill assume that they spend way more time to get said skill lvl. So it's been twisted that more time = more skilled = hardcore.

Along with these twisted views comes further twisted views by stating that hardcore = prick and casual = abused 2nd class citizen. This is all just a massive skewed view of our modern wanna be politically correct world.

That is also why I said that casual / hardcore should not be used when discussing content because it is the skill that sets the people apart not the time spent on the game.

Another example would be my friend that just came back. He had been gone for about 6 months. He came back and the game had tons more content. He came on little bits @ a time to grind. About 1 week later we needed a body for turn 9 and we asked him to come and he said he had not even been in coil 2. We said yea yea just watch the video and come with it. So we go into turn 9 and one shot it with a complete turn 9 nub. Now before you say he was carried that is not the case because he did not die one time.

So since he plays just for short bursts @ a time by forum standards he is a casual and he beat turn 9 on his first try but, if he comes in here stating that turn 9 is easy now he is labeled hardcore by the forum because of his skill vs the others.

So my original post is correct.