[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Levis]

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE SMN due to the QQ of the folks that can't learn to play it correctly.

I see this response a lot when people request changes to "core" game play. This has nothing to do with the "ability" to play correctly. I agree with OP that the summoner class is not a "summoner", its a DoT class with a dinky pet. Should have just made it a "warlock" type caster who focuses on DoT damage and introduce the real summoner class later.

With all that said, no one can deny that it IS GOOD, but for a lot of players it's a huge disappointment how the summoner job turned out.

[Exstal]

I see this response a lot when people request changes to "core" game play. This has nothing to do with the "ability" to play correctly. I agree with OP that the summoner class is not a "summoner", its a DoT class with a dinky pet. Should have just made it a "warlock" type caster who focuses on DoT damage and introduce the real summoner class later.

With all that said, no one can deny that it IS GOOD, but for a lot of players it's a huge disappointment how the summoner job turned out.

Not a single person in this thread has demonstrated what a "real" summoner is.

You also quoted someone from 9-13-2013.

If they see enough of these threads across multiple languages and forums then i think you are maybe the one who is giving too little credit in how these forum can be influential.

You're absolutely right. However this issue, as far as I know, is only happening on English forums (Japanese forums don't have any complaints). So that's 25% of the playerbase who even cares, and then there's the even smaller percentage of that 25% who even play ACN/SMN/SCH.

[Deliciou5]

Not a single person in this thread has demonstrated what a "real" summoner is.

You also quoted someone from 9-13-2013.



You're absolutely right. However this issue, as far as I know, is only happening on English forums (Japanese forums don't have any complaints). So that's 25% of the playerbase who even cares, and then there's the even smaller percentage of that 25% who even play ACN/SMN/SCH.

There is a factor you are not considering. How many people WANT to play a more badass summoner.

Clearly SE knows that new jobs will entice players to return or start playing. It's why they added jobs that people never thought they would have added in FFXI:Blue mage,Gambler(corsair), geomancer,etc.

SE is a business and they DO have personal pride in making this project succeed. They will do things for pure fan service, they know their fan-base. How many fights,minions, references in game are just pure fan service? How many people join FFXIV because of ninja or dark knight? How many people will subscribe any number of months to try out the new and improved summoner? You do not look at things from their perspective, you are only looking at the here and now and only thinking that the 25% you mention are the only people that matter.

There are countless people who do not play summoner at all because it's not interesting enough to warrant their attention. I lost count after 30 something in the past month alone me discussing things with others who do not even post on forums on how summoner is hugely disappointing,boring, or just plain not "cool enough". SE can't just look at the players they already have, they also are a business and have to either find ways to keep players subscribed by changing/adding new abilities to jobs through expansions or add new jobs so they continue to compound the time spent on this new job as long with playing other jobs. Hence the cross class abilities and experience bonuses for leveling other jobs in that category.They want you to level horizontally and vertically. Changing and adding new abilities to summoner that significantly changes the job is a real possibility in the future because it will entice more players play for longer and get new subscribers who weren't interested because their favorite job of past final fantasy's was never done justice in their minds.

As for what people on other forums think i do not know. Maybe you speak Japanese/German/etc. but i do not. However who is to say that these people would not enjoy these changes? Should only level 50 arcanists be able to talk what they want out of summoner? What about all the others who do not play arcanists but due to differences in culture or ways of thinking they rather play a different job rather than speaking up and wasting time on a forum?

I guarantee that if summoner became new and improved a lot of people, maybe even you would enjoy a new summoner that had some ingenious ideas on how to make the job more fun to play and be more pet focused. Some people in this thread even complained that too many people would play summoner instead of the 25% balance they have now if the job became a lot more powerful.(however their assumption was based on SE's inability to be able to balance the job properly)

I mean look at rogue/ninja, even though a lot of base abilities mirror lancer...in the end they feel the job is more "fun" to play due to a simple thing as class style or aesthetics in general.It's cool to play as a ninja, or to roleplay as a thief type.Its fun to them. SE does not just worry about already existing players they also worry about potential players as well.It is why they add new jobs. It is why they add new content. It's to keep players playing AND get new players to play.That means enticing people to play summoner where they haven't before.

If anything they don't care as much about the 25% that already played summoner to death, because those people are more interested potentially in playing new jobs...and only new content for their job in a expansion will make them want to play a job they already played to death again. People who already played summoner more often than not have a shorter lifespan than those who haven't because they are tired of the monotony. It's part of their business model for you to try new things so you keep yourself subscribed.

[Estevo]

There is a factor you are not considering. How many people WANT to play a more badass summoner.

I'm not going to quote your entire post, but it's all well said

I got my summoner to 50 just in case it does change for the better, right now it's sort of a pipe dream I'm putting on the backburner.

I think it's right to want things to change for the sake of creativity and pure fun. I think that White Mage, Warrior, Ninja, Black Mage and Monk are fantastic Jobs, of course they aren't perfect, but they are fun and feel right. I think compared to those jobs the Summoner, paladin, Dragoon, bard and Scholar could use some more work.

Disclaimer: In my opinion

[dday3six]

*snip*

Telling SE how to run their business model, is not more apt to make them listen to you. Particularly not when you do it as a wall of text. You want to talk business, do you think it makes sense to spend time translating massive posts?

If you truly want them to listen, the first step is learn to condense. Writing a non-English based company an long essay in English is unlikely to grab their attention, due to the resources they will need to expend to even interact with it.

On the forums here, all you're doing is inviting the scrutiny and criticism of other forums goers. You want to catch the developer's interest. In a short, and to the point manner, submit it to the Live Letter questions. There it has a much better chance of actually getting seen by the Devs.

[Razard]

And there was me happy in thinking that this thread had died...

Sigh.

[Exstal]

z

I agree that forums can be influential. That's only if there is an outcry of enough of a magnitude (pre 2-1 WAR). That's what I replied to. I can only read English and a fair amount of Japanese, and out of the 2 languages only the English forum has constant complaints about Summoner and it's always by the same few people.

The one Summoner thread was created by the same person on the English forums (Spellbinder) and that's the only thread the Japanese people even looked at. A little note is that Japanese don't create 2000 new threads for the same topic, they find the old topic and upvote it if they like it. So, as interesting as your post is, it didn't really relate to what I said.

On a side note; how many people would you turn off by changing the dynamic of Summoner? There's no way to know. It's a gamble. Make Summoner more pet based (50/50) and gain some people, lose time, lose other people or leave Summoner as is and devote time into a different pet class?

[Spellbinder]

The one Summoner thread was created by the same person on the English forums (Spellbinder) and that's the only thread the Japanese people even looked at. A little note is that Japanese don't create 2000 new threads for the same topic, they find the old topic and upvote it if they like it. So, as interesting as your post is, it didn't really relate to what I said.

Just thought I'd chime in here and say this is, in my opinion, what greatly sets us apart from our JP counterparts when it comes to supplying feedback to the developers. Granted there are also threads dedicated to the discussion of Summoner spellspeed and Tridisaster on the JP forum now, the thread I created there a year ago is still on the first page, with posts as recent as 11/13 where people come in to contribute their thoughts and ideas on the job. I tried the same here, but the thread sadly fell into disuse after about 50-60 pages.

There are possible adjustments (mostly quality of life fixes) that I think would address a lot of problems with Summoner (e.g. gear itemization, mana issues, Egi balance in light of future Egi). I'd love nothing more than to start a new feedback thread and discuss issues and possible changes within reason that would not significantly alter the way Summoner plays, because I think it's fine for the most part.

Sadly, it would probably be taken as more rambling and clutter in the DPS forum.

[Exstal]

I liked your thread, in both languages, because it addressed something reasonable. It's simply too bad there are too many people who want ridiculous, sweeping changes instead of trying to work within the framework of what we already have. It's a crying shame.

[Akiza]

Peolple want sweeping and dynamic changes to the way Summoner plays because 3.0 is coming soon. An Expansion is a great time to separate and add polarity between Classes and Jobs.