Locked out of the Duty Finder.

[Tiggy]

Expecting every player to be responsible for the entire American internet after the signal leaves their house is completely ridiculous and literally is an impossible task and expectation. Stop making excuses for a poorly implemented and designed system.

[Giantbane]

If everyone is in the instance and one of the player 90Ks, is it the system fault or the player's fault (includes the player's ISP's fault)? And if it is the tank or healer, the raid fails. Obvious getting mad at the system is misdirected anger. Players need to be held accountable to get their system, network, etc. to be working properly. If the system is going to crap out like it did last night, then SE get the blame over server problems, but the system, in this case the strikes and penalty, is not at fault.

Individuals, maybe. But there's no reason to give strikes to everyone else in the party because one of their members is having network issues. It's not like I should be expected to sort out the network problems of some random stranger on the internet.

The collective penalty is to use the power of social reinforcement to get get people to click commence and quit DF fishing and gaming the system.

Seriously, can you read the thread please? It's impossible to game the system as a group. The use of social reinforcement in this case is misplaced and purely destructive in nature as it discourages players from grouping with strangers.

[NyarukoW]

... It's not like I should be expected to sort out the network problems of some random stranger on the internet.

Why not? If you want to raid successfully, sometimes you need to help people sort out their mumble, TS, etc. If the network lag issues can't be resolved it will be impossible to have them in your static. Be proactive and help solve the problems that you can.

...it discourages players from grouping with strangers.

Yet fact remains, people queue on the PF and DF even while the whole server went to the crappers last night. Got 90K-ed out of Mog EX 3 times before everyone gave up and went to bed. People don't need to be withdrawing, period. It should be a rare exception that it happens. People trolling others with withdraws need to be reported to the GM. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. You shouldn't need a 3rd strike to report the withdraw troll or to not party with the troll.

.. Stop making excuses for a poorly implemented and designed system.

The system is implemented just fine and is working great on the whole. The withdraw boss only shows up right around the time of the daily reset. Queue ST or CT at around the reset time, and you have to click commence 15 times to go, other times of the day, it is at most 2 withdraws. As it is, the system is already too generous and lenient and penalty is too light, if there is any fault.

[Tiggy]

If the network lag issues can't be resolved it will be impossible to have them in your static. Be proactive and help solve the problems that you can.

This ignores the reality that internet conditions change daily and that most network problems exist outside of the house and are unfix-able by home users. Level3 problems being the primary example when it comes to this game for the majority of users.

You're still just making excuses while refusing to acknowledge that this is a real problem that people are unable to control.

The system is implemented just fine and is working great on the whole.

The existence and length of this thread is a cornucopia of reasons why your wrong. The evidence is right here in front of you, but you refuse to see it. A lot of people clearly don't think this is a good system.

[NyarukoW]

This ignores the reality that internet conditions change daily and that most network problems exist outside of the house and are unfix-able. ...

Really? If you give up before you try, then go ahead and take that position. Level3 is not immune to pressure from from its customer base. In any case 3 strikes per day is more than enough to handle the ocassional 90K disconnect and accidental strikes that can occur in that 45 second window. All this about network problems is just smoke and mirrors for people misbehaving and looking for an out to troll and fish the DF.

[Tiggy]

Really? If you give up before you try, then go ahead and take that position.

First off you don't know what problems I've personally had with the internet, what I've done to fix it, and how much work I've done to identify the problem, or if I have even had personal problems at all. Acknowledging that the internet is large and owned by dozens of different businesses that don't always play nice with one another and acknowledging how difficult it can be to fix problems between you and the server in no way shape or form suggests anything about the state of my own internet or any steps I've taken to smooth out my experience. It doesn't even suggest that I personally have problems. Keep your ridiculous baseless assumptions to yourself.

Level3 is not immune to pressure from from its customer base.

That would be true if even a single person here was a customer of Level3, except the reality is that not one person here is a direct customer of level 3 since it's an internet backbone not an ISP. So not a single person here has any leverage in order to get them to do anything at level3. Do not sit here and assume that all internet problems are easily solved by the consumer. It displays a complete ignorance for how the internet works and a complete ignorance about the options people actually have to remedy the problem.

In any case 3 strikes per day is more than enough to handle the ocassional 90K disconnect and accidental strikes that can occur in that 45 second window.

I 100% disagree with you. Even one strike against me for something I didn't do is too much. Regardless of the amount of strikes. You need to grasp that basic concept. No argument you have will ever convince me that I should suck up a punishment due to the actions of another or in my example the malfunctions of the internet for another.

[NyarukoW]

... Even one strike against me for something I didn't do is too much. ....

I know I got some OCD issues, not sure about you. But a strike is not a penalty, it is not even 1/3 of a penalty where it is 10 minutes. You sure like to get hung up on obsessing about absolutes that make no sense in reality. I hope you do not get upset over lost packets, because that is going to happen in packet-ized networks, e.g. the IP network otherwise known as the internet. The reality is all you need the odds of accidents/errors to be low enough then the system is good to go, just like signal to noise, you don't need a perfect clear signal, just a signal that is steady and persistent enough to sort out from the noise. You do not need 100% fail-safe for a game, and heck even airliners where people actually lose their lives, don't get 100% fail-safe, fault-tolerant multiple back-ups, but also doesn't mean people get to turn a blind eye to problems because it can not be be fixed 100%. The overriding problem here is not the rare acidental strike, but rather the persistent trolling and fishing on the DF.

[Tiggy]

I 100% disagree with you. Even one strike against me No argument you have will ever convince me that I should suck up a punishment due to the actions of another or in my example the malfunctions of the internet for another.

Clearly you missed the part where I said no argument would convince me. It's my opinion that it's too much. Others here obviously agree. Your opinion is not the only valid or important one. Deal with it.

[NyarukoW]

....Others here obviously DISagree. ...

This is just one of many from this thread alone. But this one is good see:

The amount of whine in this thread is really amazing. So what if you get locked out for 30 minutes from using the DF? If you were able to reject the queue three times in a row I doubt that 30 min makes that much of a difference. All your real life emergencies that suddenly spring up on you will most likely occupy you for more than 30 min anyway so don't sprout that poor excuse.
All this whining about "oh but i only have 2 hours a day to play"....if you only have 2 hours you most likely spend the time in queue anyway and not commencing will not be a problem that frequently occurs.

Tough luck if you are a poor innocent soul that got hit by the punishment because some idiot in your party is to stupid to commence. If that happens three times in a row I would seriously start questioning why you are pairing up with such people.....and for all other purposes there is that nice tool called ready check....use it. yeah it sucks if you are innocent and are locked out from DF (for only a freaking 30 minutes)....but so is being paired with a crappy tank in a dungeon....the options that you have though are the same...either you deal with it or you leave the group.

I am amazed by all those hypothetical cases you people come up with of why this is unfair and whatnot...if you have serious bladder issues that makes you run to the toilet every 5 minutes so that you miss every damn queue you ever signed up for....get a bucket or don't queue in the first place. If nature calls your booty back to the toilet and you miss your queue then at least the next queue should be a safe bet unless you peed 6 liters and are in serious need of rehydration.

Seriously though, if all day long you are fine and then suddenly, every day, during those 2 hours of playtime you are hit with explosive diarrhea, incredible thirst, family emergency cause you need to exorcise your little sister, etc, pp....I would start thinking whether you should start up the game in the first place.

[Tiggy]

Don't rewrite what I said. Don't put words into my mouth by "fixing" what I wrote. Plenty of people in this thread agree that this is a bad system. Cherry picking one post that disagrees with me doesn't change that plenty of other posters do not like this system. You need to find a way to deal with the fact that your opinion isn't the only one and to refrain from brow beating people into agreeing with you. It has been recorded that you think it's fine. Go away and let other people post their opinions too. They are entitled to their opinion just as much as you are, and everyone here will not agree with you. Stop trying to refute every single person in some misguided attempt to make your argument the prevailing "correct" one.

There are people here who do not, and will not, agree with you. Find some way to deal with it. Please stop brow beating people after every other post to try and change their mind.