New Sword shown..

[Nalien]

The grind for a relic in this game isn't even a fraction of what you had to do in XI, it's not even comparable in terms of a time sink let alone difficulty.

What exactly was difficult about XI's Relics? I found Titan infinitely more challenging, heck Chimera was harder than anything XI threw at me... Dynamis was effectively just a bigger dungeon with more trash mobs, I wouldn't exactly call it harder, same for Salvage really... XI's took longer, sure, though a large part of that was just because of lockouts (which are purely artificial)... Imagine finishing an Animus weapon when you can only do a dungeon once every 3 days; even ignoring purchasing the books, that's over 80 days. Farming Alexandrite would take nearly a year... The only difference then is that Dynamis takes an hour or so, and a dungeon takes no more than 30 minutes (guess we could also throw in "You cannot do a specific dungeon if anyone else on your server is currently doing that dungeon"). The events you had to do in XI were longer, sure, but most of the time sink came from lockouts and there really wasn't any difficulty outside event planning... XI in general was only challenging if you wanted it to be, since you didn't have strict event requirements and could solo/lowman if you wanted.

[Tupsi]

What exactly was difficult about XI's Relics?

At their peak Relics in XI required a few difficult fights and even DD (DPS) checks for certain NM fights, e.g the Ram, Yin/Yang (and by extension, Dynamis Lord) and your respective Animated Weapon/Shield fight. Remember XI also had a significantly different battle system (less face roll same 1/2/3 rotation) I'll just assume you did relics long after they became the norm when SE nerfed every step outside of reducing the currency needed.

heck Chimera was harder than anything XI threw at me...

This is why I make assumption. Especially if you take into consideration how Mythics required you to master many of the ground kings in ToAU and Einherjar content. Especially at their peaks before SE made the game much easier. Empyreans as well has pretty challenging fights at the peak of their introduction that later became cake walk.

though a large part of that was just because of lockouts (which are purely artificial)..

Welcome to FFXIV's end-game structure - It's easy to try to downplay FFXI when XIV isn't any better.

XI in general was only challenging if you wanted it to be, since you didn't have strict event requirements and could solo/lowman if you wanted.

This is incorrect if we're talking about the same FFXI. The XI you're probably talking about is 80-99 cap XI, when they made so many adjustments that allowed lowman/solo of most end-game content because back at 75 cap, the most you could 'solo/lowman' was Salvage, and that was if you were at the top of your game.

[Fayto]

Remember XI also had a significantly different battle system (less face roll same 1/2/3 rotation)

Yup, in XI it was faceroll while spamming macros and menus. Same concept, different UI. Also XI was an easy MMO, it was just extremely time consuming which is not difficulty.

[ReplicaX]

At their peak Relics in XI required a few difficult fights and even DD (DPS) checks for certain NM fights, e.g the Ram, Yin/Yang (and by extension, Dynamis Lord) and your respective Animated Weapon/Shield fight. Remember XI also had a significantly different battle system (less face roll same 1/2/3 rotation) I'll just assume you did relics long after they became the norm when SE nerfed every step outside of reducing the currency needed.

Arch Dynamis Lord was no easy feat. Your average LS when it was released had no chance. Getting a completed lvl75 was a pure grind and time sink. Then the Trial of Magians was yet another grind. Finally for lvl99, you had to compete with others to get 5 Umbral Marrows which drop off Arch DL. My LVL 99 Amanomurakumo was my biggest accomplishment & longest goal in the 10 years I played XI. I quit before getting my Aegis from 95 to 99.

[Nalien]

At their peak Relics in XI required a few difficult fights and even DD (DPS) checks for certain NM fights, e.g the Ram, Yin/Yang (and by extension, Dynamis Lord) and your respective Animated Weapon/Shield fight.

I don't really remember them being any more difficult than S Ranks. It was just a case of "We're doing Dynamis - Beaucedine tonight and I'm throwing you all under the truck to get my Attestation". Yin/Yang was probably the only thing with any real mechanics (had to kill them around the same time, no?), and that's a bleedin' Guildhest in this game, with 5 mobs instead of 2, though I guess they don't hit like a truck.

Much of the "difficulty" I remember in Dynamis was killing things in an order, with the actual "bosses" being trivial if you gave yourself plenty of time after currency farming. I guess if I count idiots in Dynamis - Windurst (for example) as difficulty then that would make Dynamis harder, and I guess I should since idiots are the only reason Titan was ever hard... Still, fights with groups in XI were just a matter of auto-attacking and hitting a macro when you got TP, or /healing when you ran out of MP (oh god I'd forgotten about that until now...), really cannot find it in myself to call it harder when I specifically remember doing Dynamises at 2am, dozing off several times, and still clearing it. I simply cannot do that in XIV...

Welcome to FFXIV's end-game structure - It's easy to try to downplay FFXI when XIV isn't any better.

Main difference being, XIV only does it with Coil (and that's something they even want to rectify). Loot lockouts in Crystal Tower I guess, but you can still do the event. By the time ToAU came around XI had enough content for it not to matter as much, but I still remember spending a lot of time not really doing anything in the game because I couldn't (because of lockouts). Really isn't the same case with XIV.

the most you could 'solo/lowman' was Salvage, and that was if you were at the top of your game.

Are you talking about Relics/Mythics specifically, or the game in general? Because a lot of content could be lowmaned, or even soloed, other than Salvage before Abyssea came in and ruined the game. I mean, RDM/NIN was a thing.

Arch Dynamis Lord was no easy feat.

Arch Dynamis Lord was after Embrava was introduced, no? Everything was an easy feat after that.

[ReplicaX]

Arch Dynamis Lord was after Embrava was introduced, no? Everything was an easy feat after that.

Look up the fight mechanic. At a certain % of HP he will split into 2 clones one false one real with no way to tell which is which. A 50/50 shot, if you kill the true, the fight is over. False, more clones. Most LSes wiped after killing a false if they even made it that far. Clone stage is basically a DPS check or its a wipe.

Embrava didn't matter.

[Nalien]

Embrava didn't matter.

With Embrava, Arch Dynamis Lord was easy though. If you got the right clone, it was laughable. If you didn't, the game basically said "F*ck you" and kicked you in the crotch. Nobody wiped to Arch Dynamis Lord because he was hard or a challenge, they wiped because the RNG decided to bend them over and go in raw. Everything in the game was trivial after that spell was introduced, the only reason Arch Dynamis Lord had such a mechanic was because the developers knew Embrava rendered all his other mechanics completely moot. Embrava is probably 90% of why I quit that game, it destroyed balance and turned endgame into an exercise in coin flipping, rather than something challenging.

[ReplicaX]

With Embrava, Arch Dynamis Lord was easy though. If you got the right clone, it was laughable. If you didn't, the game basically said "F*ck you" and kicked you in the crotch. Embrava is probably 90% of why I quit that game, it destroyed balance and turned endgame into an exercise in coin flipping, rather than something challenging.

Why I said it was no easy task for an avg XI LS between the 50/50 fight mechanic and DPS check and just organizing it with "specific" jobs to counter DL. Most Relic owners joined separate LSes just for Arch. Embrava was nerfed partially due to Arch DL and Nyzul. Perfect Defense Arch Odin/DL and a few other fights.

I'm not gonna argue about Embrava, I feel the same way as you. The 50/50 mechanic was the no easy task being random, the fight wasn't a 100% win and why most avg LSes wiped. No where did I mention a challenge.