When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Aylis]

Sadly this will end up being the normal for the game and just shows why exactly not having properly tiered content, having end game just flat out open and easily accessed, and all players funneled into one group is a really bad idea in the end. More so when the game tries to shoehorn everyone into the end game under the pretense of "do it or be bored to death".Not to mention either the 100 foot tall vertical brick wall separating the easy mode dungeons and other content that can be done by anyone with a pulse from Coils and EX primal where players are pretty much required to be masters at their roles.

We can't fault the players for this at all, if something is open and accessed naturally players are going to want to try it. Said players are mixed in with those who have done it before and are geared for it and we have the flak we have now because of it. The idea of mixing the super experienced with the new players together in a fight where things are very tight mechanic wise is a deffo recipe for disaster when the content in question was more or less made for experienced teams and statics to begin with.

The idea of being able to pick minimal item level and clear experience just seems to sound like a bandaid covering a bigger issue. Maybe a hurdle to climb before tackling that 100 foot brick wall would be better? Something more difficult then talking to an NPC and taking a small walk and suddenly the player is Coils flagged. Some sorta attunment quest to at least show to the player they're Coils ready?

[Eirwen]

I had this talk with some very hardcore players in my FC the other day and found out that they were taking players for granted, saying "new players to this can look up a video". But takes away the fun of exploring by spoiling the fight for yourself.

ST was explained to me by my FC. Last we DF'd Syrcus Tower, players were furious because one team had players new to ST. Instead of helping, everybody left. Inside again I offered to help new players by explaining the fights and we all had a fun run.

I also have an example of a WAR and WHM fighting over both of them not doing their job. The WAR quit FFXIV for a few months after that.

I really miss (good) communication. It's like everybody cares more about the grind than the fun and pride of helping a new player out. There's so much gear to collect, weapons to upgrade, but are we really in a rush to get the best so fast, thereby taking players for granted and communicate poorly? It doesn't have to be this way!

[Schizm]

What I would like to see to get experienced players back into the mix is maybe rip T5 into three sections, call it a practice type mode where veteran players will get a reward for having a new player in the party (say like tokens that can be traded in for later gear), after passing all three sections can get a pass on T5 and or maybe an off-hand item to offer assistance to the fight. Like tanks would get "Badge of Bravery" that would let them proc and stun mob/bosses in coils for 15 seconds, healers can "Badge of Saints" and heal lower level or newer players without penalties or casting, DPS can get "Badge of Honor" and proc out skills and the new person get's a "Brotherhood Mark" which would let them not die but face weakness with 1 HP and will reset battle if everyone else is knocked out.

We are already out there with coil turns 9+ and would be good to get people into the mind set of helping more and maybe show the newer players that you will need to learn the future fights.

[HakuroDK]

It's just kind of aggravating to wipe over and over and over on content and be told that said content is the easiest thing in the world. If it were that easy, I wouldn't be wiping Turn 5 to the point of mental and emotional exhaustion. I mean, is there something I'm missing? I'm a competent player, I know exactly what I'm doing in Turn 5. Yet despite that, my party wipes every single time.

I think the worst part of it, for me, is that a very important key element of the story is directly tied into the Coils. If you do not play Coil, you miss out on the story. With Heavensward, if its hardcore elite raid is 24 people, the balance could actually effectively make the whole dungeon balanced out to the point where one or two less than flawless players can't completely destroy the whole run.

[Agrotc]

I mean, is there something I'm missing? I'm a competent player, I know exactly what I'm doing in Turn 5. Yet despite that, my party wipes every single time.

You just need to keep at it and hope for a group that has enough competent players to clear it. Back in August when I finally started really trying to clear T5 I must've spent around ten hours joining PFs or DF groups where the same person would mess up divebombs a few times in a row, leave and cause everyone else to leave with them, until by luck I got a group of other people who were in mostly the same situation as I was managed to get to Twisters on the first attempt and a couple of attempts later after everyone got the hang of the fight from that point on.

I know it sucks to be in the situation and when trying to help friends of mine with T5 we've basically run into the same situation all over again where one person will screw up repeatedly, leave, and cause anyone that we don't really know to leave along with them, throwing us back to square one. It also doesn't help that at this point in the game's life the people that are still stuck on T5 are probably either new, fairly casual players stuck in a similar situation, or people that are just bad.

[Eight]

It can certainly be frustrating at times. I'm someone who is just starting on SCOB myself and some of the people have lately been downright rotten. Any party that I've been in, in the past few weeks have been started by me as I felt that it was the only way to avoid this. I create a party usually with a friend or two and clearly make sure in my description that everything is noted that it is a learning party but some of the people ugh.

I can only speak for myself but on my server but the population seems to be really hurting right now and finding parties for so much of the content is awful and sometimes can be non existent, even hunts for most of the day are dead. This leads to experienced players who want to do this content joining our learning parties and throwing tantrums making the whole thing fun for no one and there is nothing worse then making good progress only to have someone rage quit and completely ruin the momentum the party had.

This has been the typical cycle for this game though and it will continue. The lockouts create a huge gap and will continue to do so. Sadly when there are parties a good majority of the time the people are pretty damn ignorant so why bother. I've been working on putting together a static and we are 5/8 so hopefully soon we can get in there without worrying about this kind of stuff.

[Rankojp]

For lack of a better way of saying it, this seems to be an instance of trying to figure out how to handle the fact that casual natured players and hardcore natured players are able to join into the same content and their expectations of other players are greatly different.

Maybe this was already given as an option in some other post, but would it be of benefit to enable a checkbox on Duty finder that allowed you to designate casual or hardcore (probably thinking of a better way to label it).

Where there is no difference in the actual dungeon difficulty or rewards, but you just get grouped with people that you can come to expect how they will react/perform? I know I would rather join a casual queue then to join as is and get verbally butchered for not doing something exactly right. Make sense?

[Ellatrix]

This is an MMO. You are absolutely required to network with other players if you want to make meaningful progress.

Or DF all day then come here and complain about how the game is broken (hint: it's not).

[HakuroDK]

This is an MMO. You are absolutely required to network with other players if you want to make meaningful progress.

Or DF all day then come here and complain about how the game is broken (hint: it's not).

That's a lie. Even through networking (I belong to a raiding LS out of sheer desperation to clear content I cannot otherwise clear), I have not succeeded at T5 or even Moogle Mog EX. Ever. Not one time.

It's very easy to say "Just find a raiding party and go with it," but to actually find one willing to take someone who has never beaten T5 is like finding a needle in a haystack, and starting a raid static is even harder and takes up a lot more time, because you have to actively seek out people who either have not cleared the content you have or will help you clear that content, and very few people are willing to help strangers in an MMO.

It just feels rude whenever I hear that it's my fault that I can't find a group to clear with despite constantly trying to find one, as if I run DF once, wipe once, quit, and then come onto the forums to cry about my problems like some extremely delicate flower. How dare you? I mean, you'd think with as many people voicing complaints about it, that there would need to be some kind of change, right? Or do you somehow think that we're all lazy good-for-nothings who expect to win without effort? Because I sure as hell do not expect to win a hardcore fight without wiping at least six times prior. Because hardcore content is supposed to be hard. But if I can't find a group of players committed to the long haul with the ability to adapt strategies to match the boss mechanics, then how in the hell is that my fault?

[Ellatrix]

That's a lie. Even through networking (I belong to a raiding LS out of sheer desperation to clear content I cannot otherwise clear), I have not succeeded at T5 or even Moogle Mog EX. Ever. Not one time.

You failed at networking with competent players.