When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[HakuroDK]

You failed at networking with competent players.

All of the competent players are in full statics or raiding FCs. I'm on a freaking RP server for twelves' sake! There are no other competent players willing to do anything except farm Second Coil and learn Third Coil so they can then farm it.

I mean, if you're so adamant to the fact that we're all lazy and worthless, prove us wrong! Find a bunch of T5 rookies and run them through T5. If you're not willing to even try that, then you're proving my point.

I mean hell, I can say T13 is the easiest raid ever. Doesn't mean I'm right or even telling the truth. I have not set foot in even Second Coil, much less the final turn. So how in the hell can I know how easy it is if I have never attempted it? Likewise, you say it should be easy for us "casuals" to find a competent raid static and clear T5, yet have you tried to find a static for a T5 clear at all recently? Especially considering all of the competent players have moved on to Second and Third Coils?

[Ellatrix]

I mean, if you're so adamant to the fact that we're all lazy and worthless, prove us wrong! Find a bunch of T5 rookies and run them through T5. If you're not willing to even try that, then you're proving my point.

I did this, actually. I wanted to clear T5, my current static didn't even want to try. I cleared T5 after spending 30+hrs in a pug and trying to grab people to go again that I had practiced with before. Then I built my own static out of people that had never cleared before but wanted to do it, then spent a week teaching them the fight to finally clear it.

If I want to clear something, I WILL beat it. People who also want to beat it will join me, knowing that following me will result in a win. This is what it means to be a leader. So either be that leader, or continue to fail until you find someone to latch on to.

[Kail]

All of the competent players are in full statics or raiding FCs. I'm on a freaking RP server for twelves' sake! There are no other competent players willing to do anything except farm Second Coil and learn Third Coil so they can then farm it.

I'm on Balmung. What hours do you play? If you play in the evenings (after) 10 CST, I'd be willing to help you get your T5 clear.

[Lemuria]

This is an MMO. You are absolutely required to network with other players if you want to make meaningful progress.
Or DF all day then come here and complain about how the game is broken (hint: it's not).
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You failed at networking with competent players.
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So either be that leader, or continue to fail until you find someone to latch on to.

Attitudes like this do more harm than good. All this does is put people off even attempting this content, which is what causes these problems to begin with.

Only the most bigoted player can say "Coil is easy". It's not. In the Twintania fight alone there are so many little things that can go wrong. Divebombs which hit the party because players didn't move quick enough or lagged briefly, kill debuff not being applied to the targets, that annoying twister attack which is literally the DUMBEST concept in a video game ever. Doubly so since some of them seem to spawn directly ON you instead of where you were, so running does literally nothing.

The point is, these toxic attitudes make players less likely to pick up newcomers as party members for running coil and new groups tend to disband quickly when they're repeatedly hitting a brick wall in content. It can be incredibly frustrating to fail at a fight and not understand where things went wrong, and coil is FULL of these little surprises. There are so many instant death mechanics that it stops being about a fun challenge and becomes little more than a glorified memory game that only takes a single person to screw up.

Players like you are literally the worst kind of poison a community can absorb. Instead of being willing to help people learn, you shoot them down for being less 'competent' than yourself. The sooner we start teaching instead of preaching, the better off new players will be and the sooner they can get to the same level.

[SpookyGhost]

that annoying twister attack which is literally the DUMBEST concept in a video game ever.

Twister is actually over hyped, even among the most casual of players. The strict nature of the ability in 2.0 was completely removed, making it a much more simplified mechanic. It quite literally boils down to this:

- Spread out after Twin casts her ultimate ability and the MT is repositioning her in the middle of the hand.
- Have Twin Focus Target'd before her and the scourges are actually engaged. It will remain for the rest of the fight, and you can even see her casting Divebomb (though if you move when she starts casting, it will be too little too late).
- When Twister is being cast, move in a half circle. A line works too, though most people prefer the half circle method.

Essentially, as long as you are constantly moving during the cast of Twister until you can visibly see the landmines, then you are safe from the mechanic. The hardest part about Twister is not getting tunnel vision. Though, honestly, this shouldn't be happening to anyone aside from potentially the healers (DS -> Twister or Plummet -> Twister can take your mind off avoiding the Twister for a split second) and the PLD in charge of stunning the Dreadknights (has to watch for stun duration on top of watching for the cast of Twister). 2x Melee, or 1x Melee and 1x OT can have a bit of trouble with this as well, though (as the OT back in 2.0/2.1) I would just stand in front of the DK as it spawns so that the Melee could have the back and the flank to themselves. Anyway, point is, Twister is an alright mechanic. It's an instadeath one, but unlike Titan's Landslide, you can be Raise'd if you are hit by a Twister or any other mechanic in the fight. Just don't stack Twisters and you're golden.

Also most people who have the mentality of "Coil is easy" tend to think that it should be easy for everyone else as well. This is why Coil is hard. If you happen to be in a group of 8 people that DO think Coil is easy, much like yourself, then you will find Coil to be easy. If people in your group are struggling in Coil and don't find it as easy, even if you yourself do, then Coil will not be easy no matter how well you play. As an easy example, if you feel like you're the best tank in the world and you pop all your CDs at just the right time, but both of your healers are dead - guess what? Game over. That said, I don't think Ellatrix has this mentality, though since I follow Bokchoy on Twitch I know he's in a competent group and doesn't really have to deal with bads at least in his static.

~Anyway~ I actually think that people are misinterpreting attitudes like Ellatrix's as "toxic", when it's actually the game developers fault for putting us in this situation in the first place. You know what's toxic to the community? Lockouts. They divide us and make any aspect of challenging the new Coil on release depressing and exhausting. Forcing everyone to play with the same 8 people each week, not allowing anyone to repeat the Turns throughout that same week, not able to help anyone, only sticking with their static... it breeds this mentality of NEEDING competent players to progress. I completely skipped Coil2, and not because I wasn't able to beat it (the group I was offered to join beat it fairly quickly and are progressing in FCoB right now), but because having to deal with everything I've mentioned is just way too stressful. I'm tackling Coil2 now, most of my group hasn't even seen guides on T8 or T9, but I am perfectly fine with teaching them and being patient because I'm not forced to be in a rush or forced to exclude them from my static. I can bring in other people to practice if someone is out sick or busy, we can tackle previous turns we've beaten at any time. It feels GREAT to be in a Coil2 static in 2.4 and the fact that I had to wait 6 months for this to be viable is simply dumb. I'm happy for all the people that ended up with a group of 8 people they like, who are competent and good at the game, and who can progress through content on it's release. But for those of us without 7 other competent friends who aren't already committed to a static, it is just hell for us to try and manage even making it past the first Turn of the new Coil.

Basically, without the lockouts, this "toxic" attitude would not exist. People would be willing to help others because they actually can help others. A lot of great players DO help out their friends who are struggling with the previous Coil, but they also have to juggle this on top of raid times and scheduling and all this stressful stuff. It's not the players fault. It's Yoshi-P's. I really REALLY hope that the idea of allowing people who've already cleared X turn to go back and help their friends with it sticks. I hope they do away with lockouts all together or at least find a middle ground. But we'll only know when the expansion arrives and the new raid is released. 'Til then, we have to deal with this or do like I did and wait 6 months for Coil to be open to everyone.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

stuff

It's also bigoted to label Coil as "hard" when difficulty is a completely relative concept.

To be honest, all Twintania requires is mechanic awareness, decent connection, and players able to play their job. That's all. I fail to understand how this is bad, or how people encouraging others to get better is toxic.

TBH Ellatrix is correct, in my opinion. If you believe you are a good player but you are dragged back by the other 7 people, find other people. Connect with them. Become friend with them. Everything will go smooth.
If, instead, YOU are the one failing a lot, then you must either practice more, ask for advice, or simply realize that raiding is not for you. The latter is completely fine, but please do not ask for nerfs for something that is SUPPOSED to be if not hard, at least somewhat challenging.

Remember: easy is boring. It's not a game if you can't lose.

[LunarEmerald]

You failed at networking with competent players.

This right here. I belong to a small free company. We aren't a big raiding guild or anything but a couple of us has beaten Turn 9 in separate statics. We regularly run and beat Turn 5 for people that need it.

Turn 5 is also something most people were stuck on for months if not longer. There's a lot to learn about the fight. You don't go in and one shot it or look up a video and suddenly you're an expert at the fight. It takes time and effort to get it down. It's very easy once you get it down but it takes time to reach that level.

[Taika]

That's a lie. Even through networking (I belong to a raiding LS out of sheer desperation to clear content I cannot otherwise clear), I have not succeeded at T5 or even Moogle Mog EX. Ever. Not one time.

It's very easy to say "Just find a raiding party and go with it," but to actually find one willing to take someone who has never beaten T5 is like finding a needle in a haystack, and starting a raid static is even harder and takes up a lot more time, because you have to actively seek out people who either have not cleared the content you have or will help you clear that content, and very few people are willing to help strangers in an MMO.

I'm on a freaking RP server for twelves' sake!

I'm on the same server as you. What our FC/LS does is we keep track on who needs which wins, for example we currently have a forum thread that lists all members who need wins for each primal. Then one of the people who needs that win (or just someone willing to help) will contact the others who need the same thing done, schedule an event day and time and post it on our forums. Then the rest of open spots (if there are any) are filled with helpers who sign up in the thread. Sometimes a few events are needed for one fight, but for example yesterday we cleared Ramuh ex like this on fourth try. We require members to commit to the events they've signed up for, and come to events prepared, but none of the events are mandatory. We run the newest Coil tier in statics, but for older Coil and other unlocked content everyone is free to organise learning / win events. This has been working very well for us and I recommend similar arrangement for other FCs.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Wonderful ideas on how to organize with your FC

My FC and I do the same thing. Im in the 2nd tier of progression in my FC as the Raid group is on t12 and the rest of us doing coil are on T7-T8. We have tons of players who still need Relics, people who need EX primals... people who need T5. We do the same thing as you. We make a database, see who needs what. People commit to join and we fill in with people along the way either in house or PF/DF.

I don't mean to be disparaging to people that haven't cleared T5 yet but what it really comes down to is something like this ^^^^^^^. Find people that are able and coordinate with them. The myth that u need a stat for this stuff is false. You need time and coordination with people in the same boat as you.

[alimdia]

everyone would just join the 'hardcore' queue and eventually casuals will join hardcore queue too