DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Aana]

I so haven't heard that one before. I know you're lying. Also, it is worth 9 seconds of DPS lost because when you miss the skill, you have to start over from the beginning. It takes 2.5 seconds to use an ability without skill speed reduction. The first skill missed is 2.5 seconds plus another 2.5 seconds to reuse. You then continue to add from there. This is simple math dude. The last bit of your post was already answered multiple times, reread them.

Sorry, gotta apologize for my War. I got my nexus and gave my HA axe to my retainer, and shes on a venture right now, but I assume claws and cleavers should be proof enough. Take my word on the axe.
http://i.imgur.com/x5wPCTG.pngRawr Str jerbs!
http://i.imgur.com/aI6WspX.pngNot 1 but TWO 50 wars! Man how did i not have mercy stroke after leveling 50 war on 2 chars....thats amazing.
http://i.imgur.com/j29Iqj3.pngDex jerbs seem cool!

Excuse me sir, may i now have an opinion on endgame activities? Or do i need to post a video of my FCOB raid i went on all of 5 hours ago too? Can we talk about drg or do i need to provide a resume with proper credentials so you can stop trying to discredit me instead of talk facts and math.

As for your 'numbers' lets see how a fight generally goes.

Engage Mob!!! RAWR!
0 Seconds: Yay my 1st GCD! HT GOOOO!.....crap....i missed. UGGGGH!
2.5 Seconds: HT ROUND TWO! HOOOOOOO! Yay i hit it!!!!

Net lost time from whiffed GCD: 2.5 seconds. Man my DPS just TANKED! UGH.

1 whiffed GCD means you loose the time it takes to do 1 GCD. How long is a GCD again? Is it 6 seconds? 9 Seconds? /checks tool tip. Nope still only 2.5 seconds. You make the common mistake of adding the time before and after an action. The time before an action is actually tied to the previous one. Thus having an action at zero seconds when you engage otherwise we would be forced to engage>wait 2.5>then do 1st GCD> wait 2.5 then do second. You are creating an extra 2.5 that doesnt exist. The time starts after the action so you dont get to double dip the previous 2.5 and post action 2.5. 1 action is 2.5, never 5.

[Fayto]

Dumb words

No, it is not 2.5. If you miss Impulse Drive, you have to redo the entire skill. That right there is already 6 seconds of lost DPS because you have to recast Impulse Drive. The second Impulse Drive could have been time spent casting Disembowel, so after casting Impulse Drive a second time you then have to cast Disembowel which could be time spent casting Chaos thrust. That right there is 9 seconds of lost DPS because you missed the first part of the combo because you have to recast. You are only counting the time of one Impulse Drive but you did not waste one Impulse Drive, you wasted an entire Chaos Thrust combo.

I know I am using the base recast time and rounding up which is the incorrect way to do it since skillspeed reduces the time, but seeing as how skillspeed sucks for Dragoon I decided to remove it from the equation all together. Not only do you not understand how Dragoon works, you seem to not understand how DPS works either.

Edit: Already discredited yourself with your posts, btw. Also your "alt" gear is bad and you should feel bad.
Edit 2: Dragoon is not Monk, if I mess up Bootshine, I only waste the DPS of that attack. If I mess up on Dragoon, I ruin the entire combo.

[Ihm]

It'd be nice if Square-enix senpai noticed us. My Dragoon is too baka and burns too easily in the sun . Gomenasai.

But anyway, they need to improve the damage buff of Heavy Thrust, and the combo and additional effect requirements from our positionals then we'll be fine. If you dont get your flank heavy thrust then you lose the potency bonus but still gain the buff. If you dont get the rear hit on impulse you don't get the potency bonus but can still disembowel.

It's enough of a reason to do your positionals and stops us getting crippled any time that the tank side steps slightly.

Oh, some Magic Def would be nice too.

[Aana]

No, it is not 2.5. If you miss Impulse Drive, you have to redo the entire skill. That right there is already 6 seconds of lost DPS because you have to recast Impulse Drive. The second Impulse Drive could have been time spent casting Disembowel, so after casting Impulse Drive a second time you then have to cast Disembowel which could be time spent casting Chaos thrust. That right there is 9 seconds of lost DPS because you missed the first part of the combo because you have to recast. You are only counting the time of one Impulse Drive but you did not waste one Impulse Drive, you wasted an entire Chaos Thrust combo.

I know I am using the base recast time and rounding up which is the incorrect way to do it since skillspeed reduces the time, but seeing as how skillspeed sucks for Dragoon I decided to remove it from the equation all together. Not only do you not understand how Dragoon works, you seem to not understand how DPS works either.

Edit: Already discredited yourself with your moronic posts, btw. Also your "alt" gear is bad and you should feel bad.

You dont have to like my gear. Its an alt. My main is boss enough.

You conflate an under 2.5 second skill into a 3 and turn that into 9 and IM bad at math?
0 Seconds: This is the moment you lance hits a monster and you hit the button to do a skill. Agreed? Still with me? OK. So you hit a button at 0 seconds. 1st skill STARTS at 0 seconds? With me?
2.5 seconds: That skill you hit at 0 seconds GCD is now over. Now you can hit another button. Following? 2.5 sec is the moment you hit button #2.
5 seconds: GCD no longer grayed out. Now you can hit Button #3 because the PREVIOUS GCD from #2 is now over allowing you to hit #3.
7.5 seconds: So on and so forth

If you miss one skill you redo 1 skill. EG:
Hit.
0sec HT, 2.5sec TT, 5sec VT, 7.5sec True.

Whiff
0sec HT(Whiff), 2.5sec HT, 5sec TT, 7.5sec VT, 10sec True.

You get DELAYED by 2.5 sec. Everything just gets pushed back the span of a single 2.5 sec. Thats it. If you miss a single ID, then your Dis and CT are both applied: 2.5 seconds later than if you didnt whiff. According to your 9 second rule, im about to finish the 3rd hit of a combo at 10 seconds (see above)after a whiff, and you are still 'redoing' your 1st HT or ID. It doesnt work that way.

Dunno if you guys ever played starcraft or SC2 but this is the same flawed logic crops up with people talking about zerg buliding prices. Drone costs 50, hatch costs 300, replacement drone costs 50=450. You dont count 2 drones to make 1 building. its only 400.

Similarly, you dont count 2 GCD timers to do 1 GCD. 1GCD=/=2GCDs. 1GCD=1GCD. 1GCD=2.5sec(or less with SS obviously)

[Exstal]

Dunno if you guys ever played starcraft or SC2 but this is the same flawed logic crops up with people talking about zerg buliding prices. Drone costs 50, hatch costs 300, replacement drone costs 50=450. You dont count 2 drones to make 1 building. its only 400.

...what. People actually math like that? Somehow 1 drone = 2 drones? This is why people just play Protoss and cannon rush.

[Aana]

...what. People actually math like that? Somehow 1 drone = 2 drones? This is why people just play Protoss and cannon rush.

Sadly people do. There have been giant threads fighting over this since the 90s and still to this day with starcraft 2. And now were getting the same thing in 14. Drones, GCDs, apparently things just spontaniously multiply. Maybe they are just protoss players. After all 1 probe=infinite cannons. Doesnt all math work that way?

Murica edumacation. We iz gewd at maf.

[beowulf81]

Aana…. you're snipping select lines from posts and responding to them when the actual body of text from that very same post will actually answer your questions, or should do at least. Why? Do you have difficulty reading? Or are you trolling?

Honest question, i do not want to waste my time addressing a troll.

[beowulf81]

Such as this:

Once again you do not raid.You do not understand why it needs to be reworked. You do not understand the problem at all, and thats ok, we have all came to realize that you are about as dumb as a box of rocks. What about turn 11 last phase when you are tethered and cant flank / rear? Now you dont have your damage buff or piercing buff. But guess what, monks and nins still rolling on doing their shit out dpsing you, oh ya not only are they out dpsing but bringing some utility to the raid and not dying cause their mdef sucks. Lets not forget dragoon uses way more tp than both so pretty much defeating the purpose of the buff they offer bard cause now they are singing for days, hell just bring a nin and let him goad the bard and give him trick 1 time per min. Just gtfo out bro with your trolls.

What do you quote and respond to in your post?

Once again you do not raid.

which strikes me as somewhat disingenuous.

[xnonamex]

You conflate an under 2.5 second skill into a 3 and turn that into 9 and IM bad at math?

Umm... this just shows how bad you are or your rotation is. One missed HT or ID costs a lot. It is just not apply it later. Type of thing. Because an optimal DRG rotations is highly fixed (esp if comparing to other melee classes) since there are quite a lot of timers that need to be managed:
HT, DIS, CHAOS, PHENO, BFB, IR, LS, PS (did i forget any?) so that's 8 timers that need to be aligned to get the max out of the class. Meaning that missing one will result in other timers falling off in the wrong time which results in either replying them in wrong times where you could do some other deeps moves (and in this case our deeps move that makes sense is 3 combo T which takes 7.5 seconds in total to make sense in using it so it also needs to be aligned since PHENO, HT, CHAOS combo will ruin it) or forgetting about them (which would cause you to loose waay more deeps). So if you are saying that you can just try again, means that you are doing that and loosing that deeps and not even realizing it.

I'm not saying DRG is terrible class. I still like to play it and i don't even mind missing stuff once in a while and loosing some deeps on it because as you said - eventually you can learn it some fights how to mitigate that and I don't mind the punishment since as you said everyone has that (let's not go into how mild or severe it is). The bottom line is that MNK and NIN do more deeps ( i think we can all agree to this) and bring more utility (and this).

[Eidolon]

HT, DIS, CHAOS, PHENO, BFB, IR, LS, PS (did i forget any?) so that's 8 timers that need to be aligned to get the max out of the class.[...]So if you are saying that you can just try again, means that you are doing that and loosing that deeps and not even realizing it.

Basically, this is probably one of the worst parts about it. A monk's missed positional is exactly that - a missed positional, and an immediate short-term, minor potency loss. However, a Dragon's miss will delay an entire cycle. At the start of the fight, as Aana suggested, it's not that major - if you miss your first Heavy Thrust, well, go ahead and do it again - it's a very minor loss at that point. ]


However, once Dragoon is in its stride, it needs to maintain perfection of a rotation or else skills will fall off. Ever have a Heavy Thrust run out before using your Full Thrust / Blood for Blooded / Life Surged? It sucks, but unfortunately, you miscalculated the time you had left on Heavy Thrust because the boss had a jump (T9 dalamud) / you missed your heavy thrust 1-2 times (Boss is spinning like a top) / you had to dodge. This doesn't even touch on, as he said, DoT management.

The only real thing I found wierd is the mention of Blood for Blood. Is there really an optimal time to use it mid-rotation? I've never thought about it before, but of all the Dragoon GCD skills, you basically can run Blood for Blood up for 80% of them (At least with my cycle, I tend to.)... So as long as you don't pop it at a Heavy Thrust that's going to lead into an Impulse Drive, it should be up for all your other bread and butter skills.