DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[RiceisNice]

If you look at it from a potency standpoint MNK NIN and DRG are all very similar with their potential base-potency the problem is buffs.

Monk gains significant bonuses through Greased Lightning stacks and a straight 5% DMG bonus while using Fists of Fire.
Ninja has many of it's higher potency abilities behind mudra combinations but it also is granted a static 20% DMG bonus with Kiss applied.


Dragoon has no static bonus or building bonus on it's damage output - that's all that holds it back in my opinion. I would rather see a static bonus or a stacking bonus that Dragoon can apply than upping it's Jump potency or changing it's play-style too drastically.

Monks don't have any attacks that have higher than 200 potency. Ninja and Monks both have a 1-2-3 combos that hits over 300 on their last hit. DRGs also have an attack buff from heavy thrust.

[Fayto]

Monks don't have any attacks that have higher than 200 potency. Ninja and Monks both have a 1-2-3 combos that hits over 300 on their last hit. DRGs also have an attack buff from heavy thrust.

While you're right about everything else, I think he means no attack speed buff like Greased Lightning or static buff like Kiss of the Wasp/Viper.

[RiceisNice]

While you're right about everything else, I think he means no attack speed buff like Greased Lightning or static buff like Kiss of the Wasp/Viper.

Well my line of reasoning was/used to be that DRGs had higher potency for their attacks because of the lack of attack speed boost. Though that doesn't really explain why ninja has one (huton) on top of having high potency and a rather high attack buff (whooping 20%).

And I can see the inherent problem behind Heavy thrust too since it's buffed is locked behind a positional bonus, esp when some of the later bosses just love to turn around to hurl fireballs or spintop around the map.

[Dhex]

While you're right about everything else, I think he means no attack speed buff like Greased Lightning or static buff like Kiss of the Wasp/Viper.

Exactly; Ninja can use Kiss +20% static Damage increase and has a Ninjutsu to boost it's Attack speed by 15%. Monk builds up Greased Lightning stacks for various bonuses and can use Fists of Fire +5% static Damage increase. Dragoon gets a 15% Damage increase tied to an off combo and no additional static/long term buffs which cannot be compensated for over time with Jumps (which are inherently dangerous to use).

[Gardes]

lol reading some of these posts is like reading a fighting game discussion about tournament level match-up balance issues and seeing home level players coming in and telling tourney level players "your character is fine! 360 command throw input is so ez! l2play!"

[Aana]

Here
they
are.

T7. Turns on a scripted timer to perform a move in her rotation. If you learn the fight you learn when she turns and if there's only 2 ranged you know where she will turn on top of that. Try agai.

T9 turns to jump at pre scripted intervals. Learn fight. Try again.

T11. I don't have any personal experience or really researched the fight but I strongly suspect it is the same as EVERY OTHER FIGHT IN THE GAME in that any boss movements are highly scripted or triggered and therefore predictable. If you can't land positionals YOU need to fix it by anticipating monster movements in a pre scripted fight.

[Kirana]

Agree that DRG needs to be retuned a bit. I geared mine up recently and tried it out. I initially thought that the positionals were not that bad, being that there were only two, but the consequences for missing them are terrible (and you WILL miss them sometimes thanks to boss turning).

To fix the job I would:
1. Make heavy thrust apply the damage buff regardless of position. Lower potency if in wrong position.
2. Same treatment for Impulse drive. Allow combo to continue if used in wrong position.
Both of the above points are exactly how MNK currently works, so this would only be fair.
3.Refactor Disembowel to increase DRG/BRD DPS more, adding higher raid utility to DRG and/or add more utlility to DRG in some other way.

[Sleigh]

T7. Turns on a scripted timer to perform a move in her rotation. If you learn the fight you learn when she turns and if there's only 2 ranged you know where she will turn on top of that. Try agai.

T9 turns to jump at pre scripted intervals. Learn fight. Try again.

T11. I don't have any personal experience or really researched the fight but I strongly suspect it is the same as EVERY OTHER FIGHT IN THE GAME in that any boss movements are highly scripted or triggered and therefore predictable. If you can't land positionals YOU need to fix it by anticipating monster movements in a pre scripted fight.

Less than boss turning, more about mechanics which force certain positioning.

T9: you have to stack for fireballs potentially twice each element phase for roughly 1-2 GCDs, and very likely you will have to skip at least one if not a few positionals during this. Also if your other melee is Thunderstruck, or if your group's strategy is to place Thunderstrucks behind the boss, you're missing rear positionals there.
T10: certain mechanics make you specifically spread out or bring a tether into the center. With another melee your space is limited and you're going to miss some positionals here and there for a couple GCDs.
T11: in the final phase you get tethered to your partner and failure to stay very, very close to him while not getting at all near the other set of tethers will result in death, not only for you but possibly the other tether set. Due to both tether sets having to stay directly next to the boss, rear positionals or flank positionals are forbidden for a large chunk of this time depending on which two sets get tethered. You also are forced to dodge meticulously during this time, sometimes to the front or sometimes the back of the boss, further complicating the situation.

T12's fine for DRG luckily, semi-training dummy with dodging of phoenix charges here or there. T13 I haven't done much but seems fine.

I don't think anyone's saying DRG can't do well in turns such as these, they certainly can do fine, but the fact is, within the melee classes, DRG is punished far far harder for missing the average positional, with less payoff for hitting every single one (which as stated above is simply not in the cards)

[AkashiXI]

lol reading some of these posts is like reading a fighting game discussion about tournament level match-up balance issues and seeing home level players coming in and telling tourney level players "your character is fine! 360 command throw input is so ez! l2play!"

Oddly specific, surprisingly accurate. :s

[Aana]

For #2 that is how mnk works. But it's how it works for virtually every gcd they have, and those gcd are faster. Drg has 2 moves to be in position for. If you want it to be like mnk then you need to apply that to every single move. You must be in position for 5 actions a minute on drg. That's it. Mnk has to try to be in position for nearly 30 moves a minute. What you are suggesting is not to 'be like mnk' it's to be idiot proof. 5 moves a minute that still work anyway without any thought at all for the slightest hit in dps over time.

Drg is in no way vying for the most complex dps in any category. The ONLY thing you have to do is land 3 HT and 2 ID'S a minute. That's it. But apparently that is just way to much for people. This is not a fighting game or starcraft where you need 300 apm to compete. This is landing 5 moves on a 2.5 sec timer every minute. Comparing this to any competitive esport is comical.