DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Fayto]

Also one simple thing that always annoyed me is that better Invigorate should mean better TP management, but in the end DRGs starve for TP as much as the other melee do in a long fight...

That is because their abilities have a high TP cost for no reason.

[Warlyx]

DRGs buffing Brds is not the best argument, since classes should be balanced on their own and not depended on a certain setup. even with BRD being almost a must have for serious raiding. Hence BRDs should get a dmg buff imo.
For DRGs it would already help to get rid of Heavy Thrust's positional requirement, so your rotation doesn't get thrown off if missed and change something about the synergy when you end up with more than one DRG.

What could be done without changing too much regarding potencies and the general way the class works, is to just switch Disembowl and Heavy Thrust. Make Heavy Thrust part of the Chaos thrust combo while having Disembowl separated. (flank requirement could go to Disembowl, before ppl shout it is too easy now). In the case of more than one DRG, only one of them would have to care about Disembowl.

Also one simple thing that always annoyed me is that better Invigorate should mean better TP management, but in the end DRGs starve for TP as much as the other melee do in a long fight...

this guy gets it.

If u balance around having NIN AND DRG for brd u are doing it wrong

same goes for NIN WAR combo so nin can avoid using dancing edge

or caster + brd


Drgs need QoL changes

Brd a boost on single target (blabla mp regen blabla foe ) doble bard on sastasha hard is a pain (no DPS LB) and the lowest dmg of all the dps ( yeah i know a brd that does more dmg than a random mnk )

Mnks dunno but GL is annoying ,but the same could be said about mudras and server lag (i rage everytime i see the rabbit when i know it wasnt my fault )

Blms : let them move and cast the next spell while surecast dammit

Smn : make contagion a spell >.> bane doesnt use charges but has a 30s cd?

[Krr]

The advantage of DRG over monk is that it has faster ramp up time on its dps. Monk must get GL3 which takes at least 9 gcds if no PB. DRG does not have to do this and can go right into their rotation at max dps.

This is not relevant in any single endgame raid encounter. Coil bosses never become untargetable or force you to stop attacking them for more than a few seconds at a time, and if they do, they usually supply an add mechanic. This was relevant in 2.2 when people actually cared about performance in Primal encounters; it no longer is.

[Galliano]

Elusive jump doesn't feel "elusive". For starters all jumps minus the standard jump got a time reduction. Why not Elusive jump? What would be so broken about it? Decrease time from 180 to 90-120. Secondly, remove the enmity reduction and give the ability to elude ground based AOE's that are avoidable ( anything that has a ground marker like Landslide, Acid rain etc).

SE if you are reading this please do NOT remove enmity reduction from Elusive Jump. I find it extremely useful in many different situations.

1. Spike damage pulls hate.
   
2. Tank dies and enemy moves to me being second on hate list, tank is raised and is regaining hate.
   
3. Flashing amber hate icon elusive lets me drop hate so I can continue pushing dps hard.
   
4. AoE on groups of mobs pulls hate from tank, elusive sends them back to the tank.

There's probably more examples but those are a few that come to mind.

[Edli]

This is not relevant in any single endgame raid encounter.

How about T9?

[Sleigh]

Dragoon is still a strong DPS and is the ONLY melee with good AoE (yes, there is more in this game than single target raids). The whole NIN bandwagon crap will end pretty soon once people realize they can't play the job optimally. MNK is better in terms of single target DPS, but again MNK AoE is only better with Perfect Balance and is subpar otherwise.

This is far from WAR 2.0. That was a legitimate disconnect in balance where one option was completely superior in every single way compared to the other.

I have to disagree with you there. At the least, WAR was always the higher DPS option of the two tanks, both by itself and with the Storm's Eye debuff affecting both tanks, so there was at least fair merit to bringing PLD + WAR. Many groups chose PLD + PLD anyway which was fine but there was still reason to bring WAR.

NIN is just on another level to DRG in every single way. It is not even funny. NIN ...

- Bursts harder. Say hello to 4K+ immediate damage within a few seconds and a 10% raid buff while everyone's at their strongest ...
- Sustains for quite a bit more DPS. This is easily counting the BRD buff, and I play with very, very strong BRDs who can do 450+ solo. Even that getting a 10% buff can't make up for NIN's sustained + raid buff. NIN is above 500 before the raid buff, no problem. DRG can't even dream of this without more than i110 gear.
- Has more survivability. Less reliance on B4B (DRG B4B is so strong it's very bad to throttle it, and when you do you lose out on a bit of DPS even further) and required positionals, no lock-up animations like Jump, a free physical dodge, no TERRIBLE MDEF which yes matters - recently in our T12 progression we had trouble keeping DRG up during the Flames of Rebirth, not the tanks, and I hear T13's even worse
- Isn't reliant on positionals 99% of the time. DRG becomes just terrible, the absolute worst if you miss a positional, it's a huge potency loss and it delays your combo further - also, multiple mechanics in Final Coil really demand certain positioning which will hurt your combo hard
- Pretty sure NIN even wins in the AoE department in real encounters. 100 potency every 2s with an auto-crit 240 potency Doton (effectively 360 potency) and 180 potency once every 20s. Besides the potency, it's just plain easy to do and consistent to hit everything - DRG has to Heavy Thrust and then do a thin line AoE to do its max damage, and I don't care how good you are, you're going to miss at the least a small part of the mobs with how thin the line is.

Let's not even go into how ... NIN lasts 6m+ without any Army's Paeon or Goad, NIN can give a free Invigorate to anyone it wants in the form of Goad, its Mercy Stroke equivalent is on a 40s timer compared to 90s Mercy Stroke, it moves faster than DRG, it has a teleport which you don't have to throttle for a bit to help movement like DRG, NIN gives a free Storm's Eye equivalent for tanks so you can keep perma-Storm's Path up, and NIN's DPS even benefits a bit from Foe's Requiem ...

So yeah. It's bad for DRG right now. They're worthless compared to NIN, side by side.

[Krr]

How about T9?

Don't waste Perfect Balance.

And even then, we aren't accounting for the fact that NIN has a ramp time just as short or shorter than DRG's with higher topend DPS. The meta isn't DRG-MNK any more. It's DRG-MNK-NIN.

Also, T9 isn't a top-end encounter any more.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

drg isn't broken,
most drg's are just lazy and or don't know how to play the job.

[Sleigh]

drg isn't broken,
most drg's are just lazy and or don't know how to play the job.

Exactly. All the top end turn 12/13 clears, the best players in the world who are by and large running combinations of MNK and MNK/NIN, just have lazy/stupid DRGs. Makes sense.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

Not sure if sarcasm... but i won't change my opinion either way, I've seen many dragoons who suck at what they do and then others who never loldrg and always get the final attack.

will say, the job is more painful to play with keyboard and mouse unless you tap num5 to lock on.