Why is tanking so rough for new players?

[Mykll]

DPS should never have to hold back. Learn how to spike aggro. Learn how to keep aggro. Enmity modifiers are so extremely high that you can have a weapon 20 ilvl below your DPS and still hold threat.

I'm literally wearing T12 drops in my profile pic and you're trying to tell me how tanking works?

Tank pulls a group of 4 things with Provoke, or Shield Lob or Tomahawk. Before the tank gets in melee range, to Flash, Overpower, whatever else he needs to do, it is ok for the DPS to start blasting especially the other 3 mobs before the tank has ANY threat on them? LotA, Bone Dragon, the DPs needs to DPS as soon as the skeletons spawn, kill them on the spot? Let's not leave healers out. It is ok on that same pack of 4, for the healer to start dropping big heal bombs and severely over healing before the tank has a chance to establish SOME threat? No.

Level 50 content, new tank in his ilvl 60-80 going to keep enmity from ilvl 110-120 dps if they don't hold back some?

I stand by what I said.

[Alistaire]

tbh they should at least update the tooltip for flash to say enmity scales with weapon dmg; it's something someone might easily think "well it couldn't be like that", and wonder why their flashes hold no hate.

[Ellatrix]

stuff said by a tank that probably loses threat

Chance of an i110 dps running i60 content is about zero, so your comment has little merit. If tank is pulling slow enough for dps to get there first, then yea it is ok and tank needs to be faster.

There is no situation in which when everyone is playing correctly, will a dps pull hate off a tank with dps going all out.

[Alukah]

Chance of an i110 dps running i60 content is about zero

If you don't run older content yourself, how can you prove that i110 dps aren't running it? Specially when someone who DOES run that content is telling you otherwise?

[Ellatrix]

If you don't run older content yourself, how can you prove that i110 dps aren't running it? Specially when someone who DOES run that content is telling you otherwise?

Because I did trial roulette on a daily basis, and there was absolutely never a time when both tanks were fresh i50 with an entire party of i110 dps.

[Mykll]

Chance of an i110 dps running i60 content is about zero, so your comment has little merit. If tank is pulling slow enough for dps to get there first, then yea it is ok and tank needs to be faster.

There is no situation in which when everyone is playing correctly, will a dps pull hate off a tank with dps going all out.

So range DPS should ALWAYS attack as soon as they are in range, while waiting for the tank, who has to be in MELEE range to be of any use, to get there? Because, they will ALWAYS be in range of their attacks before the tank. Unless the tank is just not waiting for things to die first and is already running ahead to try to get ahead of the trigger happy DPS. Read what I said again. The tank is not slow, he is in range of one of his range pulls first, ALWAYS, before he ever gets in melee range. That is not a slow tank. He is using a ranged attack while running forward to get in melee range. That is a trigger happy DPS that needs to wait a few seconds.

I run all kinds of dungeons, trials, guildhests, any combo of roulettes, and see it all the time, higher level DPS mixed in with a newer tank, that is actually running a level 50 dungeon to actually get gear for upgrades.

With all gear being about the same, and the tank has ALREADY established enmity, then yes, in most cases the DPS should not have to worry about holding back. But what you are saying is that it is ok for DPS to pull first, or DPS to start AOE nuking before the tank even has a chance to establish threat first. So, yes, literally, a worse geared tank is telling you how tanking works.

[Sapphic]

Chance of an i110 dps running i60 content is about zero, so your comment has little merit. If tank is pulling slow enough for dps to get there first, then yea it is ok and tank needs to be faster.

There is no situation in which when everyone is playing correctly, will a dps pull hate off a tank with dps going all out.

111 MNK here, and yes, I can peel off a tank if I'm not careful, especially under Perfect Balance+ b4b and I get a lucky crit chain running. I run all roulettes, low high, man scenario and expert (still have to do new Hildibrand chain to re-unlock trials). Albeit I do run sometimes as tank or healer, high and main scenario with DPS accs and sword oath. No DPS can peel from me. But PLD DPS is pretty hawt, but my tank is turn 9 geared.

It is easier for even lower ilevelled tanks to hold enmity "IF" they know what they are doing and the DPS is aware of their enmity generation. Only time you need to be more aware of pack enmity is when you have to single target DPSers nuking 2 different adds and they are much higher Ilvl, but thats on the DPS to be honest. I hardly mark also, only if I want a target down ASAP due to mechanics, I want DPS to focus that one down.

But if a mob peels with less than 10% hp, it doesnt matter, DPS will kill it before it becomes a threat to them.

But the problem is, so many do not know what they are doing, or lack awareness of being able to watch the complete fight, they tunnel vision on one thing whilst, practically, ignoring the rest.

To be competent as a tank, you need to know whats going on with every mob. the rest of the party and the surrounding areas to be able to quiclky respond to any unexpected circumstances, eg a patrol moving into range.

2nd boss in Snowcloak is a good test of being able to observe and react to what is happening in the battlefireld. shockingly enough, when Ive done roulette as SCH, MNK or NIN Ive seen so many tanks that cannot do that.

"Tank it in the middle and keep it pointed at the adds so you freeze them into snowballs, as we need them to damage and interrupt the boss" Next thing tank takes it the edge of the arean and does not face it whatsover >.<

But bad players will never take advice and ultimatelly blame others for their own mistakes, learning players take advice and look at how they can improve. Funnily enough, actually more experienced tanks are more open to advice and tricks than newer players in my experience.

Ego is a major hurdle when it comes to self improvement, in all aspects of life.

I've been tanking since EQ1, done all types of tanking, from RNG blocking to active. I learn more about tanking with every MMO I play.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Not true, sync = max stat you can have at the set level, not minimum stats.

No, levelsync has been heavily tested and it drops the gear's stats to that of the level of white NQ gear of the area's max level.

ilevelsync works the way you describe, but levelsync works as I've described it.

Of course? Do you expect a new player to keep a full set of HQ gear up? The game leaves breathing room for DPS and healers, but tanks must be wearing literally the best to counter the imbalance issue with synced players.

Nope, I expect new players to come into dungeons wearing the NQ gear that they got from recent class and main/side story quests. A tank should have received or chosen a full set of NQ gear from main/side story and class quests just before they unlocked the dungeon that they would need them in. All to often I've seen new tanks wearing gear 10 or more levels out of date leading to scenes where, I as a meleeDps in unsynced HQ, had several hundred more hp than the "Tank."

[Granyala]

Dps should watch their enmity, too and wait for the tank to establish theirs. Waiting for the tank to smack the mobs around is always a good idea.

That depends. If it's a low level mob I know I can tank and kill quickly, I won't wait for the tank to generate aggro and simply burst the mob down.

But in essence you are right: all the tools are there, there is 0 reason for any DPS to aggro a mob unless the tank is afk / DCd.

[Ghastly]

Wonder why there aren't that many tanks? Yes, it's very hard on low level dungeons (it's actually easy, but as a new person it's hell).