Yoshi & Team need to man any future FF Onlines

[ReplicaX]

Better yet, bring Tanaka back and let him do his job until the end, don't rush him and give him resources.

August 2005: Square Enix announced they had begun working on a new MMORPG. Final Fantasy XIV, previously codenamed Rapture.

April 2006: Hiromichi Tanaka, stated that developers were working to make Rapture a worldwide release for the PlayStation 3 and Windows system.

On June 2, 2009: Final Fantasy XIV was officially announced, Codename Rapture dropped.

5 years of Development and look what 1.0 launch showed. Yes, he was rushed towards the end of development, yet he still had 5 years total. 2 years more than their first MMO, FFXI.

[Tupsi]

5 years of Development

Physical production of the game started in 2007 - Anyone who's played FFXI can attest to this because Wings of the Goddess (expansion pack) was heavily unfinished and didn't receive updates nor completion until late 2009, after FFXIV launched. It was in the planning stages and "soft production" since 2005, but it realistically only had 3 years at best of work done to it and was rushed out by corporate to try to beat Cataclysm.

[Zarzak]

Let me get this straight, you think SE should keep the gear progression as is? So, as a new level 50, I should need to progress through all previous content before I get to experience the new content? So, using WoW as an analogy, I should need to do all classic, TBC, Wrath, Cata, and MoP raids before I can do WoD raids? Do you not see the immediate problem with that?

No do you?

Let me get this straight, you think SE should keep the raid content ad is? So, at any point in the life of XIV, there should only be 4 events and under an hour of actual content a week? So using WoW an an analogy, Blizzard should remove 12 of the 15 events in Siege of Orgrimmar (quick google shows the final instance of Siege has 3 events) to allow players to skip right to the end instead of keeping content relevant for longer and providing a plethora of content while also allowing players to progress at their own pace without the content they are in at their own pace being completely irrelevant even to them because the gear will just rot? Do you not see the immediate benefits of that?

Or you could ya know... NOT mudflate the game.

group gear at 60? ilvl 90 huzzah! still 2 tiers of raiding relevant for the lower tier players who now also have 5 lvls of stats and new abilities to make the content even easier for them.




What I find funny if you people complaining about the content being too hard then championing nothing but the hardest tier of content being relevant. The system above which all older MMOs followed literally fixes all fo that. Why? Because the easier lower tier content is STILL WORTH DOING. So if you can't beat T5? So what T1-4 are still worth farming while you work on it. Instead of anything NOT bleeding edge of progression being completely worthless.

Your type complain constantly how old MMOs supported nothing but end game raiders and obviously have NO IDEA what your talking about. During college I didn't have time to commit to keeping up with end game progression so I joined a lower tier guild. We were literally 2 full expansions behind current content. But who the fk cared? The gear was still an upgrade over group content and thus still relevant to us.

[Delily]

No do you?

Let me get this straight, you think SE should keep the raid content ad is? So, at any point in the life of XIV, there should only be 4 events and under an hour of actualcontent a week? So using WoW an an analogy, Blizzard should remove 12 of the 15 events in Siege of Orgrimmar (quick google shows the final instance of Siege has 3 events) to allow players to skip right to the end instead of keeping content relevant for longer and providing a plethora of content while also allowing players to progress at their own pace without the content they are in at their own pace being completely irrelevant even to them because the gear will just rot? Do you not see the immediate benefits of that?

Or you could ya know... NOT mudflate the game.

group gear at 60? ilvl 90 huzzah! still 2 tiers of raiding relevant for the lower tier players who now also have 5 lvls of stats and new abilities to make the content even easier for them.

What I find funny if you people complaining about the content being too hard then championing nothing but the hardest tier of content being relevant. The system above which all older MMOs followed literally fixes all fo that. Why? Because the easier lower tier content is STILL WORTH DOING. So if you can't beat T5? So what T1-4 are still worth farming while you work on it. Instead of anything NOT bleeding edge of progression being completely worthless.

Your type complain constantly how old MMOs supported nothing but end game raiders and obviously have NO IDEA what your talking about. During college I didn't have time to commit to keeping up with end game progression so I joined a lower tier guild. We were literally 2 full expansions behind current content. But who the fk cared? The gear was still an upgrade over group content and thus still relevant to us.

Mudflation is inevitable. All your proposal does is place Coil on some special pedestal that forces SE to keep upgrading it every time new gear is released. Fun stuff there!

Dismissing the ad hominen attacks and assumptions, you apparently do not understand why Blizzard took WoW from the 40 man raiding large instance raiding model to the short instances released piecemeal with differing degrees of difficulty. A big reason is buried in your last statement: few people could experience the content. Seriously, what good is pouring time and money into something if only a small percentage of players can enjoy it? The current system in WoW enables people to experience the content, while still giving the opportunity for challenging fights.

The response to your question in the last line is a great many people care for a myriad of reasons, some valid, some invalid, would like to experience the content when it's released and not have to trudge through 2 years worth of content. Gear is only a means to an end, not an end of itself.

[ReplicaX]

Physical production of the game started in 2007 - Anyone who's played FFXI can attest to this because Wings of the Goddess (expansion pack) was heavily unfinished and didn't receive updates nor completion until late 2009, after FFXIV launched. It was in the planning stages and "soft production" since 2005, but it realistically only had 3 years at best of work done to it and was rushed out by corporate to try to beat Cataclysm.

XIV 1.0 Launched Sept 22nd, 2010. Alpha was April, 2010.

Wings of the Goddess finished it's storyline updates Dec. 2010 as well as Heroes of Abyssea, the final addon for that series.

Since you state anyone that played XI knew this and your dates are all inaccurate. Can you please source your statement on Development starting in 2007 for FFXIV.

I ask for simple clarification.

[Zarzak]

Mudflation is inevitable. All your proposal does is place Coil on some special pedestal that forces SE to keep upgrading it every time new gear is released. Fun stuff there!

No... They keep releasing raid tiers. Doesn't have to be coil to be on the continuum of content. Do you not think that in 3.0 there will be a new raid tier harder than 10-13?

Already laid out exactly how it works (and I say WORKS because it has been done and is still done for over 15 years) in the post you quoted. Read up.

Seriously, what good is pouring time and money into something if only a small percentage of players can enjoy it?

What good is pouring 90% of the development time into every open world zone that provides you a path 1-50 when your only going to be leveling maybe 20% of the time you play the game assuming you play for a year or more?

Literally take ALL the content currently in game you are intended to spend time doing. Then split it up on whatever factor you wish and look at how much content is designed to GET you to 50 vs how much content your supposed to do AT 50. Then look at how much TIME you spend to GET to 50 vs how much time you play the game AT 50.

Been a problem since WoW made this stupid model of leveling being nothing but a formality. They could remove leveling entirely and just feed you a max level character for all the good leveling does. You follow 2000 yellow ! marks around for a couple dozen hours and huzzah your 50

^ there you go

[Delily]

No... They keep releasing raid tiers. Doesn't have to be coil to be on the continuum of content. Do you not think that in 3.0 there will be a new raid tier harderthan 10-13?

Already laid out exactly how it works (and I say WORKS because it has been done and is still done for over 15 years) in the post you quoted. Read up.

I certainly hope they will. I think I misunderstood you original post. The way I read it was that you wanted to preserve the current gear progression all the way through the next patch. However, in rereading it, it reads more like the Normal->Heroic->Raiding (for the current xpac) progression WoW currently follows by forcing ilvl requirements. That's more reasonable than requiring me to complete Icecrown (using WoW) if I want to raid Siege. However, even then, giving people other ways to get gear (albeit slower than dungeons) is necessary because not everyone can reliably run them. MUDflation, by the way, is inevitable.

What good is pouring 90% of the development time into every open world zone that provides you a path 1-50 when your only going to be leveling maybe 20% of the time you play the game assuming you play for a year or more?

Literally take ALL the content currently in game you are intended to spend time doing. Then split it up on whatever factor you wish and look at how much content is designed to GET you to 50 vs how much content your supposed to do AT 50. Then look at how much TIME you spend to GET to 50 vs how much time you play the game AT 50.

Been a problem since WoW made this stupid model of leveling being nothing but a formality. They could remove leveling entirely and just feed you a max level character for all the good leveling does. You follow 2000 yellow ! marks around for a couple dozen hours and huzzah your 50

Yes, I'm well aware leveling to 50 is really just completing the intro. There are benefits to it for first time players. But that doesn't justify a strict gear progression that forces people to rerun the same content ad nauseum.

[Roris]

5 years of Development and look what 1.0 launch showed. Yes, he was rushed towards the end of development, yet he still had 5 years total. 2 years more than their first MMO, FFXI.

The team was also held back during that time by the Crystal Tools engine's development, which also took about the same time to be developed and ended up being an equal mess. They were most likely forced to use that engine to save up costs being an in house engine, not to mention outsourcing more stuff to China, aka the horsebirds saga, to save even more costs.

Anyway, a lot of people forget or perhaps don't know that about 95% of the current team is the exact same team from 1.0, aside from a couple positions being reshuffled very few people are new to the team. The few people that have left since then have been Akihiko Yoshida going freelancer, Matsui promoted to FFXI Director and the Luminous Engine CTO who also contributed a lot to ARR's tech leaving to pursue other opportunities.

[Zarzak]

MUDflation, by the way, is inevitable.

Yes and no. The term came from WoW where from 1 expansion to the other stats went up like 100x (as I recall stats went something like....)

original = 10k tank
1st expan = 25k tank
2nd expansion = 100k tank
3rd expansion = 300k tank
4th expansion = 1mil tank

They inflated stats like WTF which is why they are now trying to fix their games numbers.

Using EQ as an example because I can track it from original to current..

Stats have gone up fairly linearly for over 15 years.

HP/Mana just went over 100k a little over a year ago. And that is after 20 expansions.

I don't think Rift's stat inflation was that big either though I can't exactly remember.


FFXIV there is no reason for our hp to increase more than 1-2k per tier for the foreseeable future. If they do something stupid like blizzard and make 3.0 HP values break 50k then meh.

The way I read it was that you wanted to preserve the current gear progression all the way through the next patch. However, in rereading it, it reads more like the Normal->Heroic->Raiding (for the current xpac) progression WoW currently follows by forcing ilvl requirements.

Uhh from my understanding of it kind of but not exactly (since that system is literally the same content over and over)

Here is the best way I can put it sorry if it is confusing.

"original (2.0-2.5)"

group gear = ilvl 60 at peak (aka if you never step into a raid zone, including CT, you are ilvl 70)
CT1 = ilvl 70
CT2 = ilvl 80
Coil1= ilvl 90
coil2 = ilvl 100
coil3 = ilvl 110

(Those are groups obviously. 1-5, 6-9, 10-13)


1st expansion hits (3.0-3.X)

group gear = ilvl 90
expansion raid 1 = ilvl 120
expansion raid 2 = 130
etc
etc
etc


No specific ilvl requirements to zone in.. But if your still rocking ilvl 90 your likely going to get rocked in expansion raid 1. Meaning you have to do at least SOME of coul 2/3 to get enough gear to survive (highly skilled players would need less.. low tier raiders could go for full sets per raid tier).

The lowest tier players who were unable to beat 6-9 in the 2.X cycle but want to raid now have 10 lvls, a few abilities, and a full suit of ilvl 90 (if they were unable to farm full sets from 1-5) gear thus making their 6-9 progression smoother and easier without it being completely irrelevant because of group gear leapfrogging all raid content every patch.

As I said. For a few years in college I was literally 2 full expansions behind "top tier" (with 4 tiers per expansion. Call them expansion 1, 2, and 3) along with several other guilds. We had no problem with this and were in no way wasting our time because the gear was still superior to current group gear available. But the extra 5 levels (EQ only did lvl increases every other expansion typically) it gave us the extra nudge needed to beat it. We were actually farming the top tier of expansion 1 and the 1st 2 tiers of expansion 2 at the same time which got us gear quicker and let us eventually skip the top tier of expansion 2 and start the 3rd. (EQ the 1st 2 tiers of the next expansion were usually about the same difficulty relatively as the top of the previous in order to increase the amount of content available to lower tier players and provide several progressions they could work on simultaneously to give them more to do)

[ReplicaX]

The team was also held back during that time by the Crystal Tools engine's development, which also took about the same time to be developed and ended up being an equal mess.

Ppl seem to forget LE production started in 2005, and had years of prior pre-planning. 9 months later it was changed to CT 1.0 as it was going to be used for titles other than XIII and for multiple platforms instead of just PS3. Rapture itself until officially announced as FFXIV had little to no info leaked, just that it was in development.

Also I stated Development Cycle, Start to Finish. Concept & design is part of a Development Cycle and lays the foundation of a game. Production cycle is one part of the overall Development Cycle. So again 5 years to Develop the game.

I am well aware of the history that was Crystal Tools.