Dragoons feeling left out?

[Evangela]

How can this job still isn't good enough after getting buffed every patches?

[Tonkra]

you...are...PATHETIC and you are encouraging loldrg when you really cant learn that is one of the useful Dragoon to help in dmg!!

Hmm. Dot is useless. ok lets delete SUMMONER!!!

No my main isnt dragoon anymore..

And its quiet a big difference if you have 3 DoTs à 30-40 potency and longer duration... than a DoT with 30 potency that lasts 20s.
It adds up for summoner.


And in my opinion a Damage over time attack does not fit to Dragoon as well. Dragoon should be a class to directly damage the target with massive damage.

So i just think that Chaos Thrust would be much more great if i have the chance of multiple hits and more "burst" damage within a second than slowly over time. Especially in PVP.

I like the idea of the old chaos thrust much more:
Dat Chaos Thrust in 1.0. :

Chaos Thrust [Multiple Hits] in the Old Version of FFXIV [Youtube]


it caused MULTIPLE hits ... instead of a DoT..

my suggestion:
Chaos Thrust :

damage : 100 dmg (1 hit)
combo: chance of multiple hits (3-6) à 100 Dmg

for more "burst" damage... instead of damage over time.. which doesnt fit to dragoon role anyways.
would be much nicer in my opinion..


i think they just transformed that skill into a DoT abillity.. because of the combat reformation. Chaos Thrust has no re-use timer anymore.. but which it had in 1.0. which means it could be spammed.. if chaos thrust would do more direct damage than the other skill chain... it would just spammed constantly. thats why they made a DoT abillity out of it.. so that it is just used when the DoT effect is over..


Well but thats also the reason why i dont play dragoon anymore. the epicness of 1.0. is just totally gone. if you had played dragoon in 1.0. you will feel how weak it feels in comparison. while my black mage still can do big burst direct damage.

[Ryel]

I like the idea of the old chaos thrust much more:
Dat Chaos Thrust in 1.0. :

Chaos Thrust [Multiple Hits] in the Old Version of FFXIV [Youtube]

Well but thats also the reason why i dont play dragoon anymore. the epicness of 1.0. is just totally gone. if you had played dragoon in 1.0. you will feel how weak it feels in comparison. while my black mage still can do big burst direct damage.

God i couldn't agree with this more, i desperately miss what DRG was in 1.0, not 1.0's combat system itself but how DRG's combos worked and the feeling of impact behind many of the abilities.

Even the old RoT felt much more damaging than it's current rendition.

2.0 DRG feels like a shadow of it's former self in comparison, and I'm sure there are quite a few Monks out there as well that miss Simian Thrash as well.

[YokeM]

Many Dragoons feel that they are left out, I thought so at first too. Especially in comparsion to st-monk. After getting better as a dragoon, I realised this was a mistake on my part. Good Monks still out-dps me, but only for 5%. Maybe 10% if the monk is really good. And I see myself more as a casual dragoon. I have seen dragoons that do insane amount of damage, there is alot of potential here. No offend but maybe you people just need more time with your class. Still, if they would leave out the positioning of HT in my opinion this would help alot.
As for ninjas dying: Since yesterday I´m lvl 50 ninja (thank you no fates anymore -.-). I´m not used to play it yet and I have to focus on my rotations. This made me die a few times in Aurum Vale at the second boss, simply because I wasn´t focused on his mechanics. What I want to say is, give the ninjas time to grow comfortable with their class and they will stop dying. As dragoon I don´t have to focus on my rotation anymore. As ninja I do.

[Empressia]

Lets see DRG have 3 weak links that need to be FIXED to make it at least on par with MNK such as :

1. Add potency bonus on True Thrust, Vorpal thrust, Full Thrust preferably from flank - NOT YET

2. Reduce Jump, Spineshatter Dive, Dragonfire Dive cd to 60s and increase their potency by 50-100% - NOT YET

3. Remove jump animation lock - FIXED

[Adrian74]

Don't think like that. It is true that. In my opinion and nooby experience using both dragoon and ninja, a maxed out ninja can outDPS a dragoon, but that's not a meaning for exclude it from endgame content....

Dragoon AoE stills better than ninja, and can get buffed by ninja's skill. (So dragoon + ninja is a good combo). Dragoon + Bard is another good combo, dragoon just have too many party combinations to work with. A good dragon + good bard will still better option than a good ninja...

Also, it is easier to find good dragoons than good ninjas, so...

As addition, I'm an all-arounder, or perhaps, was... (I consider NIN my main already). I have played as all melee and used them many times, same geared with their zenith and soldiery gear and I could say I know very well how to maintain the heavy thrust, disembowel + chaos and phelotomize. Having to say when I start the combo I procure to have blood for blood and internal release, especially when putting DoT to the mobs...

My opinion about the melee classes is:

--- NIN ---

Single Target: Best
AoE: Good (And you really need to do a few trickies for this, for obvious reasons I won't say my nooby way to use ninja, discover your own path of the ninja, don't wait for someone to put rotations and then copy, that'd be poor and sad.)
Difficulty: Hardest

--- DRG ---

Single Target: Very Good
AoE: Very Good (Easy, blood for blood, internal release, heavy thrust + combo, dragonfire dive, spam the AoE that costs 160 TP and hits only in front, use Invigorate when needed)
Difficulty: Hard

--- MNK ---

Single Target: Very Good
AoE: Very Good (Easy, internal release, blood for blood, perfect balance after you have at least twin snakes activated and three stacks of greased lightning, or two if a BLM is rushing flares. Then just rock breacker spam)
Difficulty: Hard


All the melee classes are difficult to use and have their own thingies... MNK has to do many hits by flanks and side and dodge while maintaining greased lightning but their DoT are very easy to place well. DRG can lose a lot of damage if the tank moves in the wrong moments and you either fail impulsive drive or heavy thrust, having to repeat and repeat until obtaining the buffs... A NIN has to deal with many coldowns and have a good knowledge of ninjutsu as well as maintaining all dot and defense down, you really need to pay attention to many things with this class, believe me. (That's why you'll see a lot of them eating AoE, I was one of those when yet realizing how to use it nooby-right)

To say, MNK can do a very useful life-saver skill, Mantra, that can save the party in the worst moments, and it also buffs a lot your own heal, you can also have some nice defenses skills so... It can survive way more than NIN (And you can have 10% resistance with fists of earth... Examples where I use it... Tamtara hard final boss when the attack comes after the adds, or Titan's earthern fury, etc.)

DRG has a lot of defense too (Not the same with magical though..) and can have good defenses too. I use blood for blood with all my melee classes but at least in DRG it is more than accceptable the risk (Much more attack than damage taken). Elusive Jump is easier to use than ninja's teleport skill. (By the time you select a place to teleport you are already hit). Disembowel is super when having one bard, it is extreme super when having more than two...I went to some battles with my DRG just because there were two or three BRD.



USE THE MELEE YOU FEEL YOU DO YOUR BEST WITH AND OBTAIN THE BEST RESULTS.... BECAUSE IT WILL BE THE ONE YOU'LL DO THE BEST. A MELEE WILL OFTEN EXCEL AGAINST ONE TARGET, AND SO FAR ONLY BLM WILL CLEARLY OUTDPS YOU IN AREA.

Bad melee give bad fame to them, they are really difficult to use after all (I play with gamepad and I can't imagine how the hell there could be melees playing with keyboard and mouse, they must be either heroes or lolDRGs). If you want to do easy DPS and a very good one then take BLM just in case melee are not for you.

[Lyrinn]

As for ninjas dying: Since yesterday I´m lvl 50 ninja (thank you no fates anymore -.-). I´m not used to play it yet and I have to focus on my rotations. This made me die a few times in Aurum Vale at the second boss, simply because I wasn´t focused on his mechanics. What I want to say is, give the ninjas time to grow comfortable with their class and they will stop dying. As dragoon I don´t have to focus on my rotation anymore. As ninja I do.

This is exactly the problem, people are trying to faceroll their way to 50 with FATE spamming and then trying to learn how to play. It was sad and scary how I was undergeared, underleveled, and joining boss FATEs 10% in at Costa and still pulling hate from whoever had lead. I'm level 43 now and I've already seen the lolNINs in Stone Vigil - no mutilate, no dancing edge, using katon on a single mob, and so on.

Ninja has a pretty steep learning curve, and if you haven't been practicing good rotations yet, you're in for a lot of pain at 50.

[YokeM]

Sorry, had to cut the rest out duo to limitations.

Ninja has a pretty steep learning curve, and if you haven't been practicing good rotations yet, you're in for a lot of pain at 50.

Well, this is my opinion: I like to have my class at 50 before I do any deep thinking of what rotation to use. I have to be able to analyse every skill (animation, cd etc.) before I give a deeper thinking to rotations. As I said, this is personal taste but as I leveld my dragoon (which was my first class) for a long part I thought that true thrust combo is the superior one. Simply because I was using it since early in the game. I was comfortable with it so I didn´t want to change it.

Here comes the casual-part of my playstyle: If I´m on top of the penis-meter, I´m on top. If not, then not. It feels good to be the best performing dd, but I don´t necessarily need this for a good gaming experience.

[Lithera]

At the end of the day the balance between the melee classes is pretty decent. Be glad this isn't FFXI where 1-2 DPS classes are stupid OP, one of them (MNK) to the point they tank encounters AND push the highest damage. It's a shining example of where 1.0 would have went if Tanaka had stayed in charge. You can blame him for the lolDRG stigma since he refused to fix DRG in FFXI after the Pentaspam nerf.

[Namasu]

snip

We all know how boring fate spamming is at this point so most people probably just autoattack a couple mobs and go afk or hide somewhere once they did enough for gold contribution. Getting top threat in fate grind just means you're the most tryhard in the zone and didn't doze off yet :P

For dungeons though, there's no excuse for not even trying. People who don't bother to learn and practice rotation for one class/job tends to be just as bad with any other role.