[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Ojikuh]

Why not throw pet food at the pet to make the stronger........drains base mana or TP to make pet go berserk.

[Brightwizard]

I want FFXIV summoner to be like FFXI - no exception. >.> ... those fking trolls..

[dday3six]

...I am just throwing ideas out and how to change up current pet mechanics even if it isn't the most well thought ideas i expected people to engage in meaningful discussion not try to put down and attack. Maybe that is why i am a bit passive-agressive. They claim to know their job well yet they do not take any ideas and try to refine them or supplement their own, just attack them. So i apologize, if i was being a bit rude...

Most people don't want the job to radically change. They might want a few quality of life tweaks, but nothing more. That is why you are not getting a disscussion on the matter. What interest would people have to duscuss reworking a job they don't want to be reworked. If you mistook this several times nerco'd beast of dead horse beating thread for one of meaningful discussion you're sadly mistaken. The OP hasn't even been updated in more than a year....

[Exstal]

The OP hasn't even been updated in more than a year....

Despite that, "yes" was still winning. However, the people I ask in-game have no interest of a rework because it's too much effort to have to relearn their class. What if it's worse? What if it becomes a pet job and people wanted a DoT job? It's not reasonable to rework a class unless it's broken or worthless. *cough 2.0 Warrior *cough*

[Airget]

If they reworked SMN I'd hope they do it in a way where SCH's skillset remains as it is now but they just alter the concept of SMN. I enjoy how SCH plays and the aspect of using DoT to add to dmg and if they did alter the play-style of SCH to better accommodate SMN I would be dissapointed.

Let's just say they do make SMN their own entity I would say they do it this way.

Abilities have two effects, one when pet is out and one when said pet isn't out, there would be more focus on controlling the pet and less on actively fighting. However I wouldn't eliminate all of Archanist abilities from SMN I would keep the following:
Ruin, Aetherflow, Ruin II, Summon II, Spur, Enkindle.

I"d define each pet by a role, Ifrit=melee, Garuda=range and Titan=Support.

If they add Shiva, Ramuh and Levi I'd maybe have they play as dual roles except not as strong as the above.

So something like Shiva=melee/support, Ramuh=range/support and Levi=Melee/range

Now these effect would determine which abilities take effect when an action is made.

When it comes to the dual-roles they could be maybe 70% effective of their main role counterparts so these dual roles would be designed to serve as a way to have more options at a stronger potency then using their non pet form.

Now let's use the current pet commands as an example as to what they could do.
As to how abilities would work they would have the following, from 1-50 aka until 3.0 hits abilities would have the following tooltips

Melee:
Range:
Support:

However each ability would only have 2 of those options. When 3.0 hits and the dual roles are added abilities would then be given the "dual ability" if you are using a primal with that aspect to it.

So a 3.0 tooltip would have the following

Melee:
Range:
Melee/Range: (this would take effect when Levi is being used)

So overall the tooltip would look something like this

(Abilitiy name)
-standard ability if neither role is out-
Melee=(ability used if melee pet is used)
Range=(Ability used if range pet is used)
Melee/Range=(Ability used if melee/range duality pet is used)

So in the above example the following would be true:
If Titan is being used then the standard effect would take effect if the summoner uses that ability
If Ifrit/Shiva is out the melee ability will be used
If Garuda/Ramuh is out the range ability will be used
If Levi is out the melee/range ability will be used

--

If we use the ninjutsu method of changing the ability icon based on the effect in place we could have the following:

In the above example each ability could have a name attached to the egi:
Ruin
(Ifrit)Crimson Cyclone/Axe Kick(Shiva)
(Garuda)Wind Blade/Shock Strike(Ramuh)
Spinning Dive(Leviathan)

To keep it semi simple I will use the first letter to shorthand the egi names for the above abiltiies. For this attack I and S would be melee, G and R are ranged and L would work from range as well.

The potency of each attack would be as followed:
I=110 + stun
S=95

G=100
R=85 + stun

L=125 + stun
Ruin=80

The idea is as followed, a dual roles potency will be weaker when they use an ability that only has one of their roles, however if a dual role uses an ability that has both roles in it they will be stronger. Because L is a melee/range type their ability would be the strongest for this spot meanwhile since the dual roles of S and R are not melee/range their potency is weaker compared to what I and S have and since T does not have either role the summoner would be the one to act if they used that ability.

---------------------

I apologize if it is semi confusing to follow but let's see if I can make a tldr version.

Basically with 6 egis a concept should be designed where rather than basing abilities on the egi themselves, they shoudl serve as roles. In order to suffice the idea of a SMN having 6 pets their needs to be a way to differentiate the new egis from the old egis without eliminating the old egis.

With that in mind the idea of their abilities based on roles came to mind. Since trying to base a role on tanking seems a bit illogical given that SMN is a DD I felt making Titan a Support would be more logical while Ifrit and Garuda serve as melee and range.

With that in mind the other 3 egis take on 2 roles with none of them having the same exact two roles and the following came to mind:
Ifrit=Melee
Garuda=Range
Titan=Support
Shiva=Melee/Support
Ramuh=Range/Support
Levi=Melee/Range

Each ability that a Summoner can use which can effect what a pet does would have 6 effects 5 of which are used by the pet and 1 which is used by the summoner if the pet which is currently summoned is not compatible with that ability.

A single role egi would have a more potent ability in the instance that the dual role can not use both roles in said ability however if both roles are present in the ability the dual role egi will have the edge with said ability.

Again with the above example:
(Abilitiy name)
-standard ability if neither role is out-
Melee=(ability used if melee pet is used)
Range=(Ability used if range pet is used)
Melee/Range=(Ability used if melee/range duality pet is used)

It would look like this when egis are taken into account

-Ruin 80 potency-
(Ifrit)Crimson Cyclone 110 + stun/Axe Kick(Shiva) 95
(Garuda)Wind Blade 100/Shock Strike(Ramuh) 85 + stun
Spinning Dive(Leviathan) 125 + stun

---------

Overall this is as far as I can run with the idea atm, attempting to add every ability and balancing out is just a waste of time and the above only serves as a way they could create Summoner as a job that focuses more on pet actions and not a DoT with little input towards what their pet does.

[Wilhem]

Yes
I love pet classes and summoner is a great class whose only problem is being a summoner. I'm all in favor of a reworking of the class, not to make it stronger or whatever but to make it closer to what a FF summoner is.

[Deliciou5]

Snip

Maybe some of my suggestions are radical, however i was hoping that people take each idea on individual basis and maybe combined it with their own ideas to make it work. If i lack your experience i am glad to hear in detail on how my ideas will not work, so i can refine them. You only want to discuss me...not my ideas.

Oh no i made a single mistake about the 2s because when i looked up information to educate myself on the job just to be sure i accidentally switched the numbers. I guess i should never be taken seriously again because you don't want change to happen after you repeatable use ad hominens yourself to say why my ideas hold no merit even though you never went into detail as to why. I guess the fact that i admitted to my mistake and willing to discuss my mistakes means i lack any credibility.How many people on the internet can actually admit their mistakes? I mean seriously. I guess this is why people cannot admit they are wrong on the internet half the time, because people want to constantly use it as leverage against them.

I mean do you know even what a ad hominem is?Here is an example i found to illustrate my point.

(1) William Dembski argues that modern biology supports the idea that there is an intelligent designer who created life.
(2) Dembski would say that because he’s religious.
Therefore:
(3) Modern biology doesn’t support intelligent design.
This argument rejects the view that intelligent design is supported by modern science based on a remark about the person advancing the view, not by engaging with modern biology. It ignores the argument, focusing only on the arguer; it is therefore a fallacious argument ad hominem.

See the bold statement?Maybe I was focused on you in my last post to you, so maybe i made the mistake myself since i was replying to your post that was completely ad hominem based. Your original post focused on me rather than anything i have said, you don't take any idea and dissect it only attack my credibility since you know you can't stop me from posting, otherwise you would probably have this entire thread shut down if you had your way.

So far everyone would rather say why i am wrong to discuss rather than on how the job could change. If you do not want the job to change, that is fine.However going out of your way to discredit others ideas because you believe that we should only follow YOUR guidelines on how we should discuss it is not only selfish, but completely ludicrous. Yes it may be somewhat selfish on my part that i want the job to change, however....FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...AND.... looking at how many people voted for change in this thread i really do not think i am in the minority here. Summoner would guaranteed become one of the most played jobs if SE did do the job more justice than they have done.

Am i Self-centered?Maybe.Once again an ad hominem focusing on people rather than the substance of the ideas i discussed.Any suggestion can be called selfish, are you trying to say we are not allowed to discuss what we want?Who is being self-centered here really?Just me? I highly doubt it.

What happens during expansions? What kind of abilities do you think they will add to summoners future?Please let me know of your ideas.Since it WILL eventually happen. It is only a matter of time before you have to learn a new way of playing your job(who's to say 10 levels worth of abilities won't be a drastic change?), change is in the very nature of the mmo. It is why people would make this topic in the first place. Hence, why SE completely reworked FFXIV in the first place. We all know if enough players demand change that SE will eventually listen. They may not enact these changes right away but we can refine them in the meantime and through many people's ideas and experience we all can temper and improve them instead of say they have no business talking about it.

You keep talking of majority...in a thread that has a poll where more people voted to change the job than not.

its a pretty reasonable assumption that you are new to MMOs because there are basic design flaws with the points you bring up. May not be new to MMOs, but your suggestions suggest and unfamiliarity to game design/balance (as well as quite a bit of unnecessary hostility)

1. Again, this has been brought up by developers and players alike, when your pet goes, your DPS does when it is a pet class, especially if it is more focused than it already is (now it is about 1/4 summoner dmg). I noticed you didn't counter any of the things delily said

2. Did i read this right? you want all pets to be able to do melee and ranged attacks with no need to close into melee or (with the teleport home button) no need to get back into range?

3. Pet stats based on class level would mean gear makes less and less difference with the amount of dmg the pet does. fresh 50 summoners would have to have a pet equal to those who are ilvl 130, meaning summoners faceroll all lower content unless their pets do very little of the summonser's potential max. This would be silly to balance, especially as ilvls increase. more interesting mathematically though. Don't even get me started with having to level up 3 (or 4 if you like carby) pets as a summoner. Either it means you have to level the class 3 times, or the leveling process is easy enough that it will happen in normal progression. This would be the only class that could potentially be leveling things while still being at 50 making dungeon groups just a little more unpredictable. How would pet level be factored into queues? a lvl 1 ifrit should not be able to be summoned during garuda ex. much more layers of silliness and filtering needed to be done then

4. You're working in a hypothetical with abilities we don't have and may not ever get that also seem like they have no place in the world. the only things that can easily teleport anywhere is *omitted due to spoilers*, everyone else is confined to aetherites. It would just be weird to have egis all of a sudden gain an ability that seems like it has been purposefully excluded from the game.

5. Again, contrary to a point brought up by the development team and in many MMOs in the past, they want the character to be the warrior of light, not his egi. It would be ridiculous for the warrior of light to be rather helpless on her/his own and kinda contrary to the whole final fantasy thing. Of course, helpless being a relative thing here, but if the character is very little without his or her pet (lets say will only do 1/2 dmg), it has been a big issue in all MMos with pets that it feels silly - not to mention that every summoner would have to play two characters (the egi and the summoner itself), the abilities would have to be split between the two, and all the new abilities to make the pet more durable so the summoner is not completely screwed if it gets killed or unsummoned. It brings up far more design complexity making the class much more complicated to accomplish what it already does and does well. BTW, a year ago, when pets were susceptible to full AOE dmg there was a lot of complaints from summoners because raid-wide AOE dmg killed their pets gimping their damage even though the pet does about 1/4 of the summoner's total damage. now AOE does much less to pets, but sometimes you still can lose them. With your new and improved pet, would they be again susceptible to full raid damage? Other hazards? if they had those special movement options, why not? Either way, pet mechanics are extremely complicated, and the more powerful the pet is, the more complicated it is to manage these concerns from a balance perspective. More unnecessary complexity for very little to absolutely no gain

6. AOE damage is very unimportant in this game. why BLM needed a buff for endgame stuff. Summoner summons are spells and there is no pet? interesting idea, also don't mind the idea of customizable egis

Okay let me properly reply.

1.Once again never said summoners shouldn't keep doing damage themselves, only that we should have more abilities related to our summoning identity, and as in my example of just having quick use summoning abilities instead of having pets there are better ways than just simply introducing more pets mechanics. Also saying that your damage will be gone TEMPORARILY is hardly good reasoning for not having stronger pets at all. If the job was to be reworked, i am sure they would change the recast timers or have abilities that allow you to keep your pet alive. This is by far the weakest argument since the summoner himself can still do damage with cross class abilities, and native abilities. Pets supplement their abilities not replace them, your argument falls apart if they lowered the casting time on summons. All they have to do is tweek all the abilities that have to do with pet. You are explaining why a unknown set of abilities would not work.

2.I wanted multiple ideas to prevent pets to hung up on the ground. The teleportation ability was meant as an idea to be refined. Such as when it teleports back to you, you have a pet command to send it back into battle or even hang back and use auto-ranged attacks if aoe spam is a problem. They can also use the idea that instead of waiting for it run back after you summon it...you can use enkindle or something else and it will automatically teleport to the enemy and use the attack. I also wanted to cover my bases and go on to say that maybe a ability liked enkindle could also have a ranged version so players would not need to always send there pet back in so they wouldn't feel that they are losing damage or capability by summoning their pet to them.If the boss has poison spread all over the ground, or w/e environmental hazard, or likes to spam AOE, then teleportation and ranged attacks will add to the survivability and utility of the pet class. If the pet died it would only be the casters fault. at worst you would only have to recast your summon and send it right back in.

3.I never said you should have 3-4 carby's to level up, that would be silly. If you wanted to change your stats for one of them wouldn't they add a reset stat button or something if it was really even important depending on how they made the leveling system? Also if you were referring to having multiple pets you could level up(if you didn't just mean carby) wouldn't each pet have a different build designed for different types of play?I also suggested that the pet should increase with your class level,if you meant my comparison of chocobo leveling system i was talking about how we can making pets more versatile...not that we should have to grind each indivdual pet. You are right about item levels, maybe your stats can effectively boost your pet as well, and/or have item levels give pets extra points to allocate.

Its not our place to reject ideas because you say they are "silly" to balance....that's just like when someone else said it would be "nightmare" to balance. It wouldn't stop SE from trying because i do not think they would think like that. A mountain climber wouldn't likely say "oh well this mountain is too big and hard to climb. screw it." =/ Yes the mountain climber can always just "Give up" and go home, but what is his job? Mountain climbing....just like Yoshida's team is MMO developer, what is the point in saying that they shouldn't even try? Saying that it will be hard shouldn't deter you from trying, otherwise we wouldn't have many good things in this life at all.

4.As i said before i do not think lore should really get in the way of gameplay, SE would change it if it suited them.I am sure they would find a reason why people could teleport all long, or somehow your pets astral ability allow them to access the power from afar or w/e...or maybe even just a alternative power source.

5.Why not have pets use a more ff12 gambit styled system? Why not have pets more easily recastable? SE answered players complaints about pets dieing during raids from AOE attacks, so what makes you assume that SE wouldn't find a way to up the survivability of pets themselves? Summonerps in FFXI did not have a problem using their pets for a decent period of time and even recasting them when they died, and if they re-balanced im sure they would take that into consideration....i am SURE they wouldn't just break the class. Once again my ideas are to inspire new ways to play the job. Not all my ideas are necessarily meant to be taken in tandem with each other unless you think they would have good synergy. Maybe summoner could remain largely the same but could get the spell only attacks from summons for example, when they raise the level cap to 60.

Also the whole warrior of light thing is just another lore reason why stuff will not be allowed to change, if SE thought the job would be better off newer abilities that added to the job(like summoning direct attack spells.) I do not think they would mind. SE wouldn't see Summoner as any less a warrior of light because the whole point of the job is to be a pet class...it is called summoner...not warlock...not sorcerer...not redmage. I am not saying pet based is the best way, but i do find it an interesting challenge to discuss ideas to make an idea like a pet class work. I like to discuss game mechanics because these puzzles interest me, everyone else seems afraid of change as if everyone will just throw the arms up in the air and go "whelp i quit! i have all these new badass abilities that use the same stats as before so my gear does not have to change, and for some reason i am now pissed that i have to spend a few days getting a feel for my new abilities!" Yes you might to relearn your part in raids...but you also do that any time you select to play a new class/job. It is no different and i suspect that SE won't sit there and use that as reason why players can't have change. After all they will make more content with new ways of fighting bosses and new abilities when they increase level cap or release expansion ..they will end rebalancing jobs eventually anyways. Unless they plan to increase cap without adding new abilities, which is ridiculous.Item levels are there for that.I highly doubt they will only increase item levels and not increase the actualy cap and not add new abilities.

Many things you have said are slightly reworded repeats of what others have said, and some ways i am starting to repeat myself now. I respect that you are actually willing to discuss things at length instead of just simply stating what they think is true without reasoning.However many of your explanations are only about why something wouldn't work. Every time someone talks about things from only one side, i roll my eyes because it just simply means that people do not want change, so when it does happen they will throw tantrums and quit the game when it happens.....like when SE introduces an expansion that increases the level cap. It is not reasonable to assume your job/class will never change. SE may very well keep the majority of the job the same,but a few new ideas to make it more of summoner instead of less is not a bad thing. I am trying to discuss new ideas or abilities for the future.Not pretending that the majority of people are not dissapointed with how the job turned out. I mean look at the votes in the OP post of this thread.

If they reworked SMN I'd hope they do it in a way where SCH's skillset remains as it is now but they just alter the concept of SMN. I enjoy how SCH plays and the aspect of using DoT to add to dmg and if they did alter the play-style of SCH to better accommodate SMN I would be dissapointed.

Let's just say they do make SMN their own entity I would say they do it this way.

Abilities have two effects, one when pet is out and one when said pet isn't out, there would be more focus on controlling the pet and less on actively fighting. However I wouldn't eliminate all of Archanist abilities from SMN I would keep the following:
Ruin, Aetherflow, Ruin II, Summon II, Spur, Enkindle.

I"d define each pet by a role, Ifrit=melee, Garuda=range and Titan=Support.

If they add Shiva, Ramuh and Levi I'd maybe have they play as dual roles except not as strong as the above.

So something like Shiva=melee/support, Ramuh=range/support and Levi=Melee/range

Now these effect would determine which abilities take effect when an action is made.

When it comes to the dual-roles they could be maybe 70% effective of their main role counterparts so these dual roles would be designed to serve as a way to have more options at a stronger potency then using their non pet form.

Now let's use the current pet commands as an example as to what they could do.
As to how abilities would work they would have the following, from 1-50 aka until 3.0 hits abilities would have the following tooltips

Melee:
Range:
Support:

However each ability would only have 2 of those options. When 3.0 hits and the dual roles are added abilities would then be given the "dual ability" if you are using a primal with that aspect to it.

So a 3.0 tooltip would have the following

Melee:
Range:
Melee/Range: (this would take effect when Levi is being used)

So overall the tooltip would look something like this

(Abilitiy name)
-standard ability if neither role is out-
Melee=(ability used if melee pet is used)
Range=(Ability used if range pet is used)
Melee/Range=(Ability used if melee/range duality pet is used)

So in the above example the following would be true:
If Titan is being used then the standard effect would take effect if the summoner uses that ability
If Ifrit/Shiva is out the melee ability will be used
If Garuda/Ramuh is out the range ability will be used
If Levi is out the melee/range ability will be used

--

If we use the ninjutsu method of changing the ability icon based on the effect in place we could have the following:

In the above example each ability could have a name attached to the egi:
Ruin
(Ifrit)Crimson Cyclone/Axe Kick(Shiva)
(Garuda)Wind Blade/Shock Strike(Ramuh)
Spinning Dive(Leviathan)

To keep it semi simple I will use the first letter to shorthand the egi names for the above abiltiies. For this attack I and S would be melee, G and R are ranged and L would work from range as well.

The potency of each attack would be as followed:
I=110 + stun
S=95

G=100
R=85 + stun

L=125 + stun
Ruin=80

The idea is as followed, a dual roles potency will be weaker when they use an ability that only has one of their roles, however if a dual role uses an ability that has both roles in it they will be stronger. Because L is a melee/range type their ability would be the strongest for this spot meanwhile since the dual roles of S and R are not melee/range their potency is weaker compared to what I and S have and since T does not have either role the summoner would be the one to act if they used that ability.

---------------------

I apologize if it is semi confusing to follow but let's see if I can make a tldr version.

Basically with 6 egis a concept should be designed where rather than basing abilities on the egi themselves, they shoudl serve as roles. In order to suffice the idea of a SMN having 6 pets their needs to be a way to differentiate the new egis from the old egis without eliminating the old egis.

With that in mind the idea of their abilities based on roles came to mind. Since trying to base a role on tanking seems a bit illogical given that SMN is a DD I felt making Titan a Support would be more logical while Ifrit and Garuda serve as melee and range.

With that in mind the other 3 egis take on 2 roles with none of them having the same exact two roles and the following came to mind:
Ifrit=Melee
Garuda=Range
Titan=Support
Shiva=Melee/Support
Ramuh=Range/Support
Levi=Melee/Range

Each ability that a Summoner can use which can effect what a pet does would have 6 effects 5 of which are used by the pet and 1 which is used by the summoner if the pet which is currently summoned is not compatible with that ability.

A single role egi would have a more potent ability in the instance that the dual role can not use both roles in said ability however if both roles are present in the ability the dual role egi will have the edge with said ability.

Again with the above example:
(Abilitiy name)
-standard ability if neither role is out-
Melee=(ability used if melee pet is used)
Range=(Ability used if range pet is used)
Melee/Range=(Ability used if melee/range duality pet is used)

It would look like this when egis are taken into account

-Ruin 80 potency-
(Ifrit)Crimson Cyclone 110 + stun/Axe Kick(Shiva) 95
(Garuda)Wind Blade 100/Shock Strike(Ramuh) 85 + stun
Spinning Dive(Leviathan) 125 + stun

---------

Overall this is as far as I can run with the idea atm, attempting to add every ability and balancing out is just a waste of time and the above only serves as a way they could create Summoner as a job that focuses more on pet actions and not a DoT with little input towards what their pet does.

Making summoner it's own entity is a very intriguing idea,I also believe making the pets act more automatically while offering more customization is the way to go. Like in my previous idea of adding abilities that didn't even require a pet at all and was more about summoning than DOT. What is it about DOT that has anything to do with summoning at all? It just seems like a waste of potential.

Your idea reminds me of how dragoons worked with their wyverns in FFXI. Wyverns would use different abilities depending on what sub job the dragoon had equipped allowing dragoons to change the frequency of certain breath attacks of the wyverns but not limiting them. Every time dragoon used jump/ws/etc wyverns would have a chance to use a breath attack or "climb" attack that would be different in utility/element/damage. You didn't really need to manage your pet at all and it just supported you consistently throughout battle fulfilling whatever role you wanted it to.

Also for the changing ability concept, are you saying that egis would use those abilties but summoners commands would change depending on the role each egi would have? That is pretty brilliant because that would save on alot of different macro buttons and it would require minimal amount of changes to the class as possible. So instead of having 8 different redundant macros you could only have 1-3 of them at most that would be used for all pets.This also is consistent with the current number of class abilities and it would easily fit.

[Exstal]

it just simply means that people do not want change,

Exactly. Which is why this thread has even made it this far because people object to the rework.

pretend that the majority of people are not dissapointed with how the job turned out signified by the votes in this thread.

There is no need to pretend. If people really were disappointed then there would have been a rework. Remember how broken and worthless Warrior was? Remember how there was basically a collective outcry from all the language groups about how bad Warrior was? They fixed it because *everyone*, Warriors and their party members, complained about it.

Now come to Summoner where some people just don't like how it plays and looks. Therefore I fully don't believe there is any merit in clamouring for complete rework.

This thread is a good one though;

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...grade-from-ACN

[dragonfire8974]

I guess i should never be taken seriously...

First off, there are lots of reasons why intelligent design is not taken seriously by the community of biology, it isn't ad hominem. if you talk to religious scientists (and now the pope) they will not say there is any conflict between religion and science. Doing science that is based on a religious text is very bad science though due to the fact that there is no way to prove or disprove god because 'he works in mysterious ways ooooOOOOOOOOoooooh' (please don't take that as a slam against religion, its a slam against people who try to justify not doing science because of religion) so the fossil record just seems complete, accurate, and consistent over billions of years. but I digress..

Each class changes very drastically over the course of their journey to 50, blm being one of the first when they get fire 3, then again with ice 3, then again with procs. Summoner gets several things between 40 and 50 that are completely integral to endgame and change a good amount of the normal rotation - contagion, shadow flare, miasma 2, and garuda. you wouldn't think it, but managing contagion changes a lot.

so accept that your perspective is limited, because it is. if you haven't played endgame summoner, you don't have a good perspective on how it compares to the other classes. I don't think it invalidates what you say, but it certainly limits credence.

1. you missed the point about MMO balance which is the heart of that argument, being accepted among a wide range of games from computer games to dungeons and dragons. Pets being the main dmg of the class instead of supplemental is problematic from a design perspective and a balance perspective. also the developers said they don't want that.

3. it is the grinding for the pet that becomes a problem, and that's what I was referring to because you'd have to balance out the minimum grinded stats your pets have (unless it is trivial and they still only do 1/4 dmg whether maxed or min'd. then there would really be no point to do it). If it was significant and it did a good portion of the summoner's damage, then it would def have to be filtered out in dungeons because a no-grind ifrit would screw the team on dps checks. changing out abilities from a range of potentials i'm okay with (really doubt it will happen but Its a fun suggestion), but making it done in a way that someone can get to level 50 without those abilities could potentially be very bad exacerbated by the more damage the pet would deal as a percentage of the summoners total damage (again, unless the abilites were trivial, and thus why bother with complicating up a system that doesn't end up doing anything different)

balance is a concern from both a design and a player standpoint. if they have to change everything about the pet every time the ilvl goes up in the final dungeon, that's just unnecessary strain on the development team that will change the flow of content or the profitability of the game (if they have to hire more workers simply to balance out new content because of a ridiculously designed pet). your mountain analogy is bad because climbing is exercise, so difficulty is the desire. A better analogy would be the front door of your house not opening very well because you wanted it to look cool. yeah, sometimes I can't get through it, and other times it will be easy, but ultimately if a different paint/material had been used, any difficulty could be avoided.

4. Lore should not limit gameplay, but I think story matters. if there is a reason teleportation is restricted that is story related, i'm excited to find it. that sort of thing can be sooooo interesting, just wiping it out would be sad for me as someone who enjoys the story in the games he plays (actually why I have stayed with this MMO as opposed to any other I have played). I can tell you spoilers about this if you would like, but there is some cool stuff having to do with it.

5. I will refer back to point 1. Its not that i'm afraid of change, it is that some of your suggestions would create more issues than it could help. the warrior of light being the person not the egi is a big sticking point in game design across media (plural of medium). If it were just my experience, I would say so. But there are webcomics devoted to this sort of thing. If players are helpless or unable to be effective without their summon or their transformation spell (50% of summoner damage is scholar damage), or mythical sword then they have very little power themselves and become unnecessary to the story. if anyone can pick up the same thing and be just as effective (if the summoner's pet did all the dmg and the summoner was just healing/protecting it), then it loses meaning that I, Magus Sinspotter, have finally beaten Bahamut. sorry buddy, but little timmy the orphan could have done it too if you had just given him the relic weapon you have been powering up for ages and that holds all your power. you're a horrible person for not letting timmy do it because he would have found a home, and never wanted for munny again. joke and an exaggeration, but that's why characters need to have their own power and not have it wrapped up in external things. to counter the argument taking the example and applying it to endgame weaponry, a blm, pld, war can make do with any weapon and still have access to all their powers. a summoner without his enhanced primal does not, thus the analogy to the mystic weapon

If summons worked like nukes, or utility spells, I don't have a problem with that suggestion in the slightest.

[Akiza]

Most people who don't want to see the Summoner reworked because it would change the Scholar. The only way to change the Summoner is to split it from the Arcanists and have the Scholar keep their current skill set. The Summoner should get Fire, Ice , Earth and Wind Elemental DoTs, a Stronger Elemental Avatar Pet and Utilities such as Self Buffs, Group Buffs, Pet Buffs and Single Target Buffs. Summoner should be able to cast more spells on the Pet.
Cast - Radiant Plume, Eruption and Vulcan Bursts for Ifrit Pet
Cast - Weight of the Land, Tumult and Bomb Boulder for Titan Pet
Cast- Great Whirlwind, Friction and Razor Plumes

Summoner Pet should get Hard Mod Primal abilities and look like a Hyur Highlander Scaled Primal.