[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Deliciou5]

How do you know that they won't change their minds in the future of what summoner should be when they seek to raise the level cap? This can applied to any job for that matter. I won't go into a lot of detail since i would be here all day, but i just want smaller versions of the primals that are already there, not different models and smaller, but smaller version of the same model. Can't stand that yoshida said that he wanted the summons to continue have a certain image...i really think that is nonsense and a bad excuse why he doesn't want people to summon them. Overall I want to at least be able to have each summon have 3-4 abilities and be summoned temporarily to use an attack.(maybe primals can be used for limit breaks only?) Or maybe just maybe, forget the primals and we can still have unique summons but are not as powerful as primals, but still extremely useful and unique...carby is a perfect example why do we have him and not others that are just as unique?

Forget Egis i despise the way they look and how wimpy they seem regardless of how useful they are. Even if summoner is not changed drastically i want at the very least to feel powerful. Dragonfire you seem to think they can't make better looking summons for some strange reason when we have crazy fates going with 50 models on the screen at once with big ass bosses mixed in too. I don't want my summons boss sized, just want more unique looking creatures to summon, not even primals. They don't have to be larger than life just different and badass looking with unique abilities. Current version of summoner is not as fun as it could be.

[Akiza]

Like anyone on the forum understands the concept of balance if most people had their way players who main Black Mages think they should have unlimited procs and Firestarter stacks. Bards think they should be fully support and just have abilities that increase the damage of the party. Paladins think they should have cure and holy.

During Fan Fest the forum GM said when making a suggestion be general and don't have a lot of detail about balance, cool downs and cost otherwise it's hard to bring them to the development team.

[Deliciou5]

Like anyone on the forum understands the concept of balance if most people had their way players who main Black Mages think they should have unlimited procs and Firestarter stacks. Bards think they should be fully support and just have abilities that increase the damage of the party. Paladins think they should have cure and holy.

During Fan Fest the forum GM said when making a suggestion be general and don't have a lot of detail about balance, cool downs and cost otherwise it's hard to bring them to the development team.

Exactly.Its not a our job to decide what is balanced and what isn't. At most we could say how it works, but we are certaintly not doing the number crunching like SE would.

[dday3six]

Exactly.Its not a our job to decide what is balanced and what isn't. At most we could say how it works, but we are certaintly not doing the number crunching like SE would.

I'm curious how you think players came up with stat weights (x det/crit/spd = 1 str/dex/int) if they are not doing in depth number crunching?

[Deliciou5]

I'm curious how you think players came up with stat weights (x det/crit/spd = 1 str/dex/int) if they are not doing in depth number crunching?

I really don't see those advanced players doing it in this thread when they say an idea is bad or not.Not that most of our ideas even break things down into numbers in the first place, yet they somehow call something overpowered with no foundation for their claim other than how much dmg they assume it does...or even that somehow a class being versatile would make it overpowered for some strange reason. If you make a class versatile, just make it so you can't have access to all your abilities at once, that you have to switch stances/buffs/summons and make the cool down a few mins or something so you can't easily switch back and forth without planning in advance.

So i do not get what you even mean, i never said they don't exist, i just said that its really not our jobs to balance the game only to produce ideas and let SE make their own interpretation of it.(meaning that my idea won't be 1:1 if they use it, but my idea might inspire them somehow to make their own badass version.)We cannot hope to possibly test things out in game like they can and know everything they know...or even balance multiple jobs at the same time in one big update making everything balanced again even if one or 2 ideas did make a certain job overpowered.In FFXI they usually ended up balancing multiple jobs at once to solidify their new roles or to help make their previous roles stronger.At most we can only say it would be imbalanced for this version of the game, not the one they plan to make.

[Dwill]

Like anyone on the forum understands the concept of balance if most people had their way players who main Black Mages think they should have unlimited procs and Firestarter stacks. Bards think they should be fully support and just have abilities that increase the damage of the party. Paladins think they should have cure and holy.

During Fan Fest the forum GM said when making a suggestion be general and don't have a lot of detail about balance, cool downs and cost otherwise it's hard to bring them to the development team.

Like I said before, you of all people shouldn't tell anyone who has a clue about balance and who doesn't. Anyone with 1st grade reading comprehension can grasp are broken all your suggestion are.

Exactly.Its not a our job to decide what is balanced and what isn't. At most we could say how it works, but we are certaintly not doing the number crunching like SE would.

Some things are blatantly obvious if they are balanced or not. Having the pet do your majority of the damage is widely acknowledged to be an unbalanced mechanic for example.

[Deliciou5]

Like I said before, you of all people shouldn't tell anyone who has a clue about balance and who doesn't. Anyone with 1st grade reading comprehension can grasp are broken all your suggestion are.



Some things are blatantly obvious if they are balanced or not. Having the pet do your majority of the damage is widely acknowledged to be an unbalanced mechanic for example.

Why? If there are ways to heal your pet, wouldn't he just be considered another party member? Couldn't you just resummon it? Wouldn't they balance that out by giving the summoner abilities(that controls your pets movement or position) to allow your pet to dodge attacks so whether it dies or not is up to the skill of the player?Like having a warp spell that was almost instant so you can teleport the pet next to you for example.If try to think of ideas to make it work,instead of just spouting rhetoric then you will have a thing called integrity where people will take you more seriously.

Take note the above ideas are based on more of pet centric job where you manage your pet more, but your pet plays a larger role and does a lot more damage...so any loss of previous abilities would be offset by increased pet control which would be more tanky/powerful.

[Exstal]

Why? If there are ways to heal your pet, wouldn't he just be considered another party member? Couldn't you just resummon it? Wouldn't they balance that out by giving the summoner abilities(that controls your pets movement or position) to allow your pet to dodge attacks so weather it dies or not is up to the skill of the player?Like having a warp spell that was almost instant so you can teleport the pet next to you for example.If try to think of ideas to make it work,instead of just spouting rhetoric then you will have a thing called integrity where people will take you more seriously.

It's not a FFXIV problem. It's every-single-pet-based class-in-every-mmo problem.

[dday3six]

I really don't see those advanced players doing it in this thread when they say an idea is bad or not.Not that most of our ideas even break things down into numbers in the first place, yet they somehow call something overpowered with no foundation for their claim other than how much dmg they assume it does...or even that somehow a class being versatile would make it overpowered for some strange reason. If you make a class versatile, just make it so you can't have access to all your abilities at once, that you have to switch stances/buffs/summons and make the cool down a few mins or something so you can't easily switch back and forth without planning in advance.

So i do not get what you even mean, i never said they don't exist, i just said that its really not our jobs to balance the game only to produce ideas and let SE make their own interpretation of it.(meaning that my idea won't be 1:1 if they use it, but my idea might inspire them somehow to make their own badass version.)We cannot hope to possibly test things out in game like they can and know everything they know...or even balance multiple jobs at the same time in one big update making everything balanced again even if one or 2 ideas did make a certain job overpowered.In FFXI they usually ended up balancing multiple jobs at once to solidify their new roles or to help make their previous roles stronger.At most we can only say it would be imbalanced for this version of the game, not the one they plan to make.

Being versatile is one thing. Summoner having a combat rez is versatile. Doing too much as one job is overpowered.

Using your Stance Change example. If there was a job that could be a Tank with all their tanking skills in one stance and a complete Healer in the other. It would only make sense to play that job opposed to just a simple Tank or Healer. Balance is each job having a place at the table. If one job does exactly what another does, plus more, thus invalidating the other job. It's overpowered. There is no nuance to that.

[Dwill]

Why? If there are ways to heal your pet, wouldn't he just be considered another party member? Couldn't you just resummon it? Wouldn't they balance that out by giving the summoner abilities(that controls your pets movement or position) to allow your pet to dodge attacks so weather it dies or not is up to the skill of the player?Like having a warp spell that was almost instant so you can teleport the pet next to you for example.If try to think of ideas to make it work,instead of just spouting rhetoric then you will have a thing called integrity where people will take you more seriously.

Take note the above ideas are based on more of pet centric job where you manage your pet more, but your pet plays a larger role and does a lot more damage.

A pet doing the majority of the damage is acknowledged widely be players AND developers as being terrible and a balance nightmare. Whether you want to believe it or not is your prerogative and I won't stop you can from wasting your time at trying to find suggestions to something that will never happen. By the way:

in·teg·ri·ty
inˈteɡrədē/


noun


integrity:
The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.


Integrity has nothing to do with me not wanting to waste my time on something that everyone with a basic amount of MMO knowledge will understand as being terrible. Also, if you want to play the "Taking you seriously" card, I have a difficulty taking anyone seriously when their name has anything to do with Death. Funny game, isn't it ?