As promised: PICS

[Physic]

Here ya go, proof that Ogre can be killed without archer burn. Our setup was GLD GLD THM CON CON PUG PUG ARC. We don't run away from any tp moves, ever. Only the ARC uses ranged attack. It's really very simple, anyone could do it if they're competent enough.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._40_06_381.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._40_06_381.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._42_46_921.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._44_22_679.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._45_37_120.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._46_26_507.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._46_36_637.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._47_04_622.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._47_52_120.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._47_57_247.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/..._48_09_804.jpg

The point isnt that its impossible, the question is who does it easier, and to be honest it still a problem that they made content that seems to absolutely require 1 gld, 2 con, and reccomend archer DD. and another gld.

the real point is, pug requires a higher level of skill and risk to succeed correct? and what beneifit, utility or DD do you get for that increased skill, and risk?

If the answer is none, or you actually lose a bit of dps, then people will make their shouts and parties around not having people other than archer.

just like in ffxi, yeah you can do things with many party set ups, but that doesnt mean that most teams will allow you to, if doing it some other way is noticeably easier, or faster.

Its still a problem.

[MeowyWowie]

The point isnt that its impossible, the question is who does it easier, and to be honest it still a problem that they made content that seems to absolutely require 1 gld, 2 con, and reccomend archer DD. and another gld.

the real point is, pug requires a higher level of skill and risk to succeed correct? and what beneifit, utility or DD do you get for that increased skill, and risk?

If the answer is none, or you actually lose a bit of dps, then people will make their shouts and parties around not having people other than archer.

just like in ffxi, yeah you can do things with many party set ups, but that doesnt mean that most teams will allow you to, if doing it some other way is noticeably easier, or faster.

Its still a problem.

It's easy as hell once you figure it out. That's the problem, people are just too freakin lazy...

[Anty]

The point isnt that its impossible, the question is who does it easier, and to be honest it still a problem that they made content that seems to absolutely require 1 gld, 2 con, and reccomend archer DD. and another gld.

the real point is, pug requires a higher level of skill and risk to succeed correct? and what beneifit, utility or DD do you get for that increased skill, and risk?

If the answer is none, or you actually lose a bit of dps, then people will make their shouts and parties around not having people other than archer.

just like in ffxi, yeah you can do things with many party set ups, but that doesnt mean that most teams will allow you to, if doing it some other way is noticeably easier, or faster.

Its still a problem.

which game doesn't have these kinda problems? - i don't see that as a problem anyways -
I just think you can't design a game that ia 100% balanced over all the classes without making them to similar or boring.
Perhaps you can but i'm not sure how.
There will always be the easier way. But the people who didn't take the easier way out will be the ones feeling much better in the end.
FFXI did very bad things like colibri camp where nobody needed nukers or enfeeblers at all and shit, but the fact that in ffxiv certain setups are a tad better then others ... i don't see the problem there really.
And i think after 2-3 weeks of playing people might even find other setups since a lot of people have to get used to the system, mp management, etc. (and a lot is goin to change there i think with 1.19 + anyways).
The game is slowly gaining a structure but its still beta-ish.
And most people have to actually - watch hate, don't keep standing in aoe/or cone range, which didn't matter before 1.18, etc. This game needs balancing a lot still, and the jobsystem is goin to change as well. We are testing but i think most people are not testing enough, i bet most complainers died once on the boss and were mad at SE

[Bethor]

FFXI did very bad things like colibri camp where nobody needed nukers or enfeeblers at all and shit, but the fact that in ffxiv certain setups are a tad better then others ... i don't see the problem there really.

Don't forget the Black Puddings!