Cash shop confirmed

[Zohnax]

If you want your official evidence, go pay for the premium stream and watch the keynote for London. Pretty sure Yoshi said, (again), at least two to three times, no pay to win.

[Vhailor]

haha...so u saying that the HD livestream of the London keynote fanfest that streamed in the official ffxiv twich channel isnt official, isnt that pretty much like saying that the flying black chocobo or the new primals havent been announced cuse there is nothing on the lodestone or forums

Yeah, I would think Yoshi saying such at a live event like the fanfest is about as official as it gets.

For the purposes of calming fears about the cash shop being a profit grab, rather than something used to increase investment in FFXIV, no, this is decidedly not official enough. Most people are almost certainly not paying for a live stream or following the Fan Festivals that closely; news of a cash shop got larger dissemination because it's a big topic. A small piece of information tossed out a week later about wanting to reinvest the profits from it in FFXIV, while very meaningful, won't get the same publicity.

There's a difference between accurate information from an official source, and an official announcement. The latter requires, you know, actually broadcasting the information in a fairly visible way - which a Fan Festival stream is not going to accomplish. They need to put it on the Lodestone or the forums for this to have much of an impact on people who are angry about the cash shop.

If you want your official evidence, go pay for the premium stream and watch the keynote for London. Pretty sure Yoshi said, (again), at least two to three times, no pay to win.

We weren't talking about P2W - the stance on that was well-known since the cash shop was first announced. Please read the posts next time before redirecting the conversation.

[Zohnax]

We weren't talking about P2W - the stance on that was well-known since the cash shop was first announced. Please read the posts next time before redirecting the conversation.

Go back two pages and read before trying to tell me what to say. The implications of, "slippery slope into Pay2Win," and, "might as well just go F2P," are there.

They made the initial announcement during the free stream in Las Vegas, and in the keynote again because so many people believe they can see the future, or think they work for SE, or want to pretend they're expert market analysts. So many people are ranting irrationally that it warranted a response to calm all the fears and assumptions people on these forums have been bombarding them with. The fact that you won't take multiple people coming forward about what was said, or people who took down a transcript of the official statement as fact enough, only shows how some of you only believe what you want to believe.

[Vhailor]

Go back two pages and read before trying to tell me what to say. The implications of, "slippery slope into Pay2Win," and, "might as well just go F2P," are there.

They made the initial announcement during the free stream in Las Vegas, and in the keynote again because so many people believe they can see the future, or think they work for SE, or want to pretend they're expert market analysts. So many people are ranting irrationally that it warranted a response to calm all the fears and assumptions people on these forums have been bombarding them with. The fact that you won't take multiple people coming forward about what was said, or people who took down a transcript of the official statement as fact enough, only shows how some of you only believe what you want to believe.

Then reference a quote next time. Responding without one indicates you were joining the current conversation - decidedly not about P2W or a slippery slope.

Either way, I agree with you - many people are ranting and concerned. It's spread well beyond these forums; announcements of a cash shop have appeared all over the place. Many people are upset over this; some have quite reasonable fears, regardless of what SE says for now, and many do not. This does indeed warrant a response to calm what fears they can. What you're somehow missing is the fact that dropping another line at another Fan Festival does not warrant an effective response, simply from a marketing standpoint. It won't reach enough people. They need to post on Lodestone or these forums - in an official announcement - which is what I've been saying the past few posts (a fact you clearly failed to grasp).

As an aside, discussing my willingness to accept information here is the height of ignorance. I never once questioned the authenticity of the information others provided, which you'd see if you bothered reading with an open mind.

In regards to the "slippery slope" type discussions, or Yoshi-P's statements about the cash shop never becoming P2W - you're right, a lot of people aren't buying what Yoshi-P is saying. That's their choice. It's not an entirely unreasonable position, either; they aren't questioning SE's honesty so much as the fact that changing circumstances might change their mind. Either way, that's a bit of a tangent.

This will be the last post I make in response to your particular claims, either way. You are behaving in a combative fashion, not bothering to read previous statements I have made, and are ascribing to me beliefs that I do not have (nor indicated anywhere). My sole point is that a statement from an official source does not constitute an official announcement. Anyone with an elementary understanding of marketing understands the difference between the two, and why in this case, SE's response has been a little bit too weak. Whether they correct that or not is entirely up to them, and I couldn't care less which they choose.

Edit / Addition:

I believe the community is over-reacting. Most western players know "Cash Shop" as Pay-to-win. When its most likely only going to be a cash shop for Final Fantasy/ Square-Enix vanity stuff. Like a Tifa Lockhart costume to glamour or Laura Croft Costume. Sephiroth's weapon. The Buster Sword for glamour etc.

I agree to an extent, at least as it applies to the people fearing the game will become a P2W type of affair. I suspect this probably won't happen, or certainly won't happen for many years.

That said, a lot of people are opposed for reasons other than a "slippery slope" type of argument. For instance, I'm personally opposed because I don't like a large focus on vanity and accessibility in my MMOs, primarily because I dislike the type of community that such a focus attracts. Hence, I'll play something else - the cash shop was sort of a "final straw" for me in this regard. There are other reasons to be opposed, of course. Not everyone is overreacting, is my point - they just hold different opinions about what they want from an MMO.

[maxthunder1]

If you want your official evidence, go pay for the premium stream and watch the keynote for London. Pretty sure Yoshi said, (again), at least two to three times, no pay to win.

What he says and what he dose is 2 different things. Yoshi has said 1 thing but when the community was in an uproar he came back saying he wasnt clear or aka flip flopped on the issue at hand.

[Dwill]

love how theres so many defending enix just saying its vanity items thats just how they start these cash shops it probally will have vanity only items for a while but when the infrastructre is in game then they are free to put in p2w stuff later like so many other games have done

What he says and what he dose is 2 different things. Yoshi has said 1 thing but when the community was in an uproar he came back saying he wasnt clear or aka flip flopped on the issue at hand.

There's just no way to please the whole lot of you.

[LittleArrow]

There's just no way to please the whole lot of you.

I def agree. Not everyone will be happy with the changes; however, we should be able to express our concerns either way. ^^

[Dwill]

I def agree. Not everyone will be happy with the changes; however, we should be able to express our concerns either way. ^^

I definitely agree that people should bring it up if they have concerns about a particular issue. However, there is a a difference between voicing your concerns and go the doomsayer way to spread ignorance and ignore logic. Like for example, your thread is the best example of how concerns should be brought up. While I do not agree with you on this particular issue, I think your thread does a good job at voicing the concerns of those against this issue and I think a few people could take a page out of your book.

When you say something that the whole world reads you better damn well keep your word and not change it or say that you meant something else aka flip flop on whatever the issue is.

For that matter if you as an individual say something you need to keep your word as well, when you decide to change what you meant regardless of who it is or even if it is a group it makes you/them/they or who ever look really bad.

Business 101: Communication issues WILL arise at one point, there is no avoiding it. Also, plans can and will change at the last minute and the best you can do is try to minimize the damage a.k.a damage control.

Not that I agree with how housing was done (I personally think it was done terribly bad) but discrediting the guy who seemed actually genuinely sorry about how the miscommunication and who is doing an actually pretty good job at being involved with the community when it's absolutely not necessary from him to based on one mishap is a really stupid thing to do.

Yoshi is in full producer mode here. He sees the murmur of discontent running through the community on the basis of the cash shop announcement, and he is rushing to soothe our fears. Not by saying "We've decided to change direction," of course; rather, by saying, "Trust us, we've got your best interests at heart, we won't let you down. Trust us, don't worry."

Of course, we've seen this before.

Not targeting you specifically but I think pretty much everyone who says the guy shouldn't be trusted due to the housing event is being hypocritical. Every single person at one point will make a mistake in communication and I'm pretty sure none of you would like it if that person just started telling everyone that you shouldn't be trusted.

[maxthunder1]

[QUOTE=Dwill;2535182]snip

I understand some issue's or changes need to be made, there comes a point when these changes or issue's seem to arise with everything. This has become a pattern with Yoshi and he either needs to not say anything on the issue or make good on what he has said in the first place with no excuses. At this point in time trust has been broken and he needs to find a way to fix it.

Also I am trying to find the interview where yoshi said he would not break 1.0 to make 2.0 but we see how that turned out. So far no luck.

[maxthunder1]

There's just no way to please the whole lot of you.

When you say something that the whole world reads you better damn well keep your word and not change it or say that you meant something else aka flip flop on whatever the issue is.

For that matter if you as an individual say something you need to keep your word as well, when you decide to change what you meant regardless of who it is or even if it is a group it makes you/them/they or who ever look really bad.