Ninja: Walk in shadow.

[Eardstapa]

This is where probably a teleport will come to play as it's teleport to area skill and does not connect an attack (unlike monk's one).

The Suiton buff allows the usage of Trick Attack of Sneak Attack for 10 seconds after it is used.

[ShaolinMike]

The Suiton buff allows the usage of Trick Attack of Sneak Attack for 10 seconds after it is used.

So I'm thinking Suiton->Perfect Dodge->Sneak Attack->Shikuchi back to safety. OR Suiton->Perfect Dodge->Shikuchi->Sneak Attack->run back to safety.

[JakzChurchill]

So I'm thinking Suiton->Perfect Dodge->Sneak Attack->Shikuchi back to safety. OR Suiton->Perfect Dodge->Shikuchi->Sneak Attack->run back to safety.

Why sneak attack? Your losing dps getting to the front of the target and losing dps by using that over Trick Attack.

It seems like Trick Attack is for Party and Sneak Attack for Solo. That way your already positioned perfectly for the two and get the most dps available to you.

[ShaolinMike]

Why sneak attack? Your losing dps getting to the front of the target and losing dps by using that over Trick Attack.

It seems like Trick Attack is for Party and Sneak Attack for Solo. That way your already positioned perfectly for the two and get the most dps available to you.

You have your skill names mixed up. Sneak attack is the one that gives 500 potency from front. Trick Attack is 400 from the rear.

[Viridiana]

You have your skill names mixed up. Sneak attack is the one that gives 500 potency from front. Trick Attack is 400 from the rear.

If you can do 1,000 potency over the 10 seconds the debuff is up, TA is still more damage than SA. If you're in a party, it's not even close, because 1,000 potency should take, like, 1 GCD.

EDIT: Also, doing the math, even if you're just spamming Spinning -> Gust -> Aeolian, that's 820 potency from skills and 300 from AA over 10 seconds. 1,120 total potency over 10 seconds (roughly). That means TA will boost this by 112, which brings TA's total potency to 512. Only reason to use SA is if you're solo and the enemy will die before 10 seconds pass.

[JakzChurchill]

You have your skill names mixed up. Sneak attack is the one that gives 500 potency from front. Trick Attack is 400 from the rear.

Errmm no I didn't; In a party you'll straight up do more damage with 400 potency and 10% damage increase for all party members, Infact a good burst rotation a Ninja will do 120 - 130 additional potency on their own. Making Trick Attack 530 and Sneak Attack 500. Now say the other 3 - 4 dps do the same, thats an extra 390 - 520 potency across the party. Not including tank damage and what not. It just out and out eclipses Sneak Attack.

Plus as mentioned your postioned perfectly for each one, in a party you'll be standing at the rear, so your already for TA, the opposite is also true when solo where you'll be set up perfect for SA.


EDIT: Viridiana, Doing some theory crafting in another thread found the optimal burst rotation after trick attack of mutilate --> Kassutsu --> Raiton --> Spinnning Edge --> Shadow Fang --> ?maybe a 5th depending on kraiton time? came at at about 1182 potency with a crit over the 10 seconds not including auto attacks, up to 1345 with a second spinning edge.

Infact If it's definite that you can get 5 abilites with Raiton, you can infact use Aeoilian Combo for a wopping 1529 potency. That's an additional 139 potency for Ninja over 10 seconds not including Auto Attack. Remembering also that Kraiton will be a crit hit aswell.

The other rotation viable finsher rotation for below 20% is

Mutilate : 360 [396] - 2s -> Spinning Edge : 150 [165] - 4s -> Gust Slash : 200 [220] - 6s -> Aeoilian Edge : 320 [352] - 8s - Assasinate : 200 [220] - 9s -

1353 Potency, 123 additional potency.

But thats if you want to be sure you don't mess up your Ninjutsu and wanna a clear 1350 potency. (also only works if they will live long enough for Mutilate to run out)

Disclaimer: This is only theory and needs to be tested, it could and most likely is wrong at this point in time.

[ShaolinMike]

Errmm no I didn't; In a party you'll straight up do more damage with 400 potency and 10% damage increase for all party members, Infact a good burst rotation a Ninja will do 120 - 130 additional potency on their own. Making Trick Attack 530 and Sneak Attack 500. Now say the other 3 - 4 dps do the same, thats an extra 390 - 520 potency across the party. Not including tank damage and what not. It just out and out eclipses Sneak Attack.

Plus as mentioned your postioned perfectly for each one, in a party you'll be standing at the rear, so your already for TA, the opposite is also true when solo where you'll be set up perfect for SA.

According to patch notes, Sneak attack does 500 base potency from front. In terms of base potency, sneak attack is stronger than trick attack. If positioning is your argument, you can Shikuchi into position immediately after the attack.

What damage buff does Trick Attack get that Sneak Attack doesn't?

[JakzChurchill]

are you ready anything, like at all?

Positioning is not at all my arguement it's just a bonus point.

Sneak Attack does 500 Potency.

Trick Attack Does 400 Potency + damage +10% for 10 seconds.

This buff is for all party members.

A ninja can easily put out 120 additional potency in that 10 second window without auto attacks.

so now we have Sneak Attack 500 and Trick Attack 520 + party's additional dps in 10s

Therefor Trick Attack is the better DPS, no question.

[Viridiana]

EDIT: Viridiana, Doing some theory crafting in another thread found the optimal burst rotation after trick attack of mutilate --> Kassutsu --> Raiton --> Spinnning Edge --> Shadow Fang --> ?maybe a 5th depending on kraiton time? came at at about 1182 potency with a crit over the 10 seconds not including auto attacks, up to 1345 with a second spinning edge.

Yeah, I was basically trying to demonstrate that even if you're otherwise failing miserably and just mashing 1-2-3, TA still beats SA

If what I'm reading over in the MNK Temple Reborn thread is right (and I'm sure it is), 15% attack speed means you can easily fit 5 attacks into 10 seconds. Of course, their 10 second window starts with an oGCD instead of GCD ability, but they also have to ramp up to 15% over 3 GCDs, so I think that's a wash. As such, I'd expect that second one to actually be more like Mutilate (Assassinate)->Spinning->Fang->Spinning->Gust, or 1,500 potency, 1,650 after TA. . .not counting what has to be well over 350 from AA damage, bringing the total to over 2k worth of attacks. I mean, if Mutilate will run the duration, so would Fang. >_>

For the first chain. . .TA(Kassatsu)->Mutilate->Raiton->Spinning->Fang->Debuff drops? Yeah, hard to tell without hands-on and seeing how long Raiton takes to do and what it does to the GCD.

[JakzChurchill]

I'd expect that second one to actually be more like Mutilate (Assassinate)->Spinning->Fang->Spinning->Gust, or 1,500 potency, 1,650 after TA. . .not counting what has to be well over 350 from AA damage, bringing the total to over 2k worth of attacks. I mean, if Mutilate will run the duration, so would Fang. >_> For the first chain. . .TA(Kassatsu)->Mutilate->Raiton->Spinning->Fang->Debuff drops? Yeah, hard to tell without hands-on and seeing how long Raiton takes to do and what it does to the GCD.

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Fang [264] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] Final Total 1210 [1610 with TA base potency]

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] ->Aeoilian [352] ->Spinning [165] (Fang no buff after) Final Total 1298 [1698 with TA base potency]

Those two really are just personal preference, I'm a combo guy who likes big numbers so I'll most probably go the second rotation.

with Kraiton though

Mutilate [396] ->Kraiton [396!] ->Spin [165] ->Fang [240] = 1197 [1597]

Now if you can get in a 5th attack which is possible then you have 2 choices.

Above + Spinning Edge [165] = 1362 [1762]

-Fang + Gust [220] -> Aeoilian [352] = 1529 [1929] (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻