Hey, Sincerely Thank You SE for easing up on Coil

[Tiggy]

You don't need those replicated exactly. People that don't know what to do will still wipe. Surviving those a bit and giving them a bit wiggle room to recover is not a bad thing. There is already plenty going on and there is going to final coil to really put them to the test. People that don't know rot method or don't know enrage method is not clearing T2. When the renauds run loose in T7, it is a wipe.

The point was the fight isn't the same any more and simply removing echo doesn't make it exactly the same. You're making excuses. On this point you are very wrong. We'll never be able to fight it the way it was ever again.

Keeping things exactly as they are is simply unreasonable and unnecessary.

False. There are very good balance and pacing reasons to do so. Especially since the game is so young and is still low on content. This mind set you have that there is zero merit shows how little you are even considering the opposing argument. You aren't treating this like a debate with attitudes like that. It's closer to you shouting with your ears covered.

These two points show me that you don't care about other people. Only yourself and your own opinion.

There's nothing in this game that only hardcore raiding FCs can play. I'll never get why people still equate "casual" to "low skill".

People refuse to let go of their prejudice and stereotypes. The same way those casual/low skilled players always call raiders elitists or toxic. Like either group is described so simply. It's the most embarrassing part of this community, and all MMO communities tbh. A complete lack of understanding for other human beings and differing view points.

[Kinseykinz]

response

And NOTHING you said, excuses the purposeful lockout. Nothing.

It's the lockouts that are the problem. Not the difficulty. Not even the grouping. It's the lockouts that create the NEED for statics. And btw, suggesting people commit to statics, when they full-well know that's not a good idea for whatever reason, and then to BLAME them that they can't access content is foolish. And PuG's aren't reliable....at all. People who pug it, are in fact those desperate to gain clears/gears, but who can't find a static. So yeah they are PuGing it...most of the time in hopes of 'catching up' and finally being 'good enough' or just simply finding a static. But I was trying (albeit to deaf ears) to explain to you that many wait for when the content is DFable/unlocked because that is the 'less stress' approach. But by that point, SE deems the content 'needs nerfed' and 'is outdated' I'm saying, they should unlock it earlier....not necessarily right at it's launch, but after 3-4 months, there is no reason not to unlock the once a week restriction on players (gear could still be locked). Just doing that, will mean more people will get to play it, and experience it while relevant,at full-strength, and without locks. (Think ST, but instead of one personal drop/week, you only can lot on each turn the 1st time you clear it each week).

You're blaming the players for not adapting to SE's system. I'm trying to point out, that it would be more prudent for ALL involved for SE to adjust their lockout system to the actual needs of the players. No nerfs required (at least not initially). And to be frank, I'm getting tired of paying for a game that purposefully makes it difficult for everyone to participate in content, forces people to decide 'personal gain' or 'friends' and is continually pushing the community further apart. Just like if you have the gil, you should be able to buy a house (and not this current 'you better have the gil AND be able to login within the first 30 minutes of a patch going live), if you have the access, and have met all prereq's, you should be able to enter content. You should NOT be forced to wait for arbitrary reasons because SE is too lazy/cheap and needs to stretch content/server structure.

If they allowed Coil to be repeatable each week, it wouldn't lessen the progress of your static at all....but it'd allow you to go back and help your FC mates (that you must like), catch up and learn. And wouldn't you like to be able to play content you seem to enjoy, with them too?

[Tiggy]

And NOTHING you said, excuses the purposeful lockout. Nothing.
...

If they allowed Coil to be repeatable each week, it wouldn't lessen the progress of your static at all....but it'd allow you to go back and help your FC mates (that you must like), catch up and learn. And would you like to be able to play with them too?

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone. There are pros and cons to the lockout and to not having the lockout. If you want to convince people they should go away then you should address all the cons it brings with it. Even SE realized that when they said 2.45 would loosen the lockout but with repercussions to drop rates based on the number of people you bring that had completed it already. This isn't just about helping your friends. There are larger game balance issues at work. Consider them and make an argument for how it can actually function in the real world. Until then arguments like this aren't helping. They are just advocating a world that has different but very real problems as well.

You should NOT be forced to wait for arbitrary reasons because SE is too lazy/cheap and needs to stretch content/server structure.

Lastly, I had to point it out. You don't seem to understand what you're talking about. None of that is arbitrary at all. Once again you aren't considering pros and cons of what it takes to do what you say. Adding new servers takes time, money, dev team resources, etc that they may not have at that exact time or would be a band-aid for a better fix rolling out a bit later. Things aren't so black and white as "they didn't do it so it must be arbitrary and means they are just cheap" and they never will be. This reminds me of the thread with the guy complaining about 24 hour maintenance. Comes from a place of ignorance on the topic.

[ReplicaX]

People refuse to let go of their prejudice and stereotypes. The same way those casual/low skilled players always call raiders elitists or toxic. Like either group is described so simply. It's the most embarrassing part of this community, and all MMO communities tbh. A complete lack of understanding for other human beings and differing view points.

While playing yesterday, this topic was brought up via shouts on Excalibur in North Shroud from a player that lost their temper here. They still had the same general attitude and view point, yet didn't care for and ignored different view points from others. It died and ppl just changed the topic of discussion.

[Tiggy]

While playing yesterday, this topic was brought up via shouts on Excalibur in North Shroud from a player that lost their temper here. They still had the same general attitude and view point, yet didn't care for and ignored different view points from others. It died and ppl just changed the topic of discussion.

It would help if people wouldn't be so defensive and resort immediately to prejudices and stereotypes to sling insults at one another. I mean really look at the two threads on the front page talking about this topic and you see the insults and hyperbole used everywhere in the place of actual conversation and understanding. The Casual-Raider or Lowskill-Highskill divide is as close to outright racism as we get in this game. I wish there was more middle difficulty content so that people could shift from the lowskill group and start working their way to the high skill group. Until upward mobility becomes easier we're just going to continue having these issues. Honestly If skill were the economy then I'd say we are in desperate need of a middle class.

[TeaTimeBear]

It would help if people wouldn't be so defensive and resort immediately to prejudices and stereotypes to sling insults at one another. I mean really look at the two threads on the front page talking about this topic(...)

I posted this a while back, I think what you want is great.. But I've yet to see such occure it's like this everywhere on every forum I've ever been on. Like the one guy in the image is all it takes, one person is enough to make everyone else lose themselves in anger. Rarely do I ever see someone ignore a post and others follow. Someone will always comment on that one snow ball post and then we get to the point of frustration and wondering what we're even fighting about.

[Tiggy]

I posted this a while back, I think what you want is great.. But I've yet to see such occure it's like this everywhere on every forum I've ever been on. Like the one guy in the image is all it takes, one person is enough to make everyone else lose themselves in anger. Rarely do I ever see someone ignore a post and others follow. Someone will always comment on that one snow ball post and then we get to the point of frustration and wondering what we're even fighting about.

The sick sad truth of it all.

[PandaOnAcid]

No SCOB nerfs in patch notes. Only Ramuh is getting echo.

[NyarukoW]

...
People refuse to let go of their prejudice and stereotypes. The same way those casual/low skilled players always call raiders elitists or toxic. Like either group is described so simply. ....

Yet you choose to stereotype casual/low skilled players (case in point in your words above). The vast majority of newer players and newbies do NOT know enough to attempt to treat anyone else with ridicule or contempt. They only respond when they realize someone is working to block them and making their path more difficult. Whereas there a select group of loud and vocal experienced players actively seeking to make it hard for rest of the player base, they even go as far as asking for "no newbies wanted" checkbox, and look to exclude people when the myth bonus shows up, and force 1st-timers to skip their cutscenes, etc. etc. New player don't start out like that, those are learned behavior of experienced players. And who else but the experienced players with T9 on farm has the audacity to sell SCOB turns for 60 mil.

SE has the data for both clear rates and subscription rates. They know the that keeping things as they are is both unreasonable and unnecessary, and they will adjust difficulty level of old content as scheduled when they have new content to replace them, because it will help the game and their finances. It is a win-win for them and this a valid position, you have been unable to prove this false.

...
False. There are very good balance and pacing reasons to do so. Especially since the game is so young and is still low on content. This mind set you have that there is zero merit shows how little you are even considering the opposing argument.

False? It is your faulty logic and invalid claims. I read an considered your rants, but I am under no obligations to accept your incorrect opinions. And even in a simple statement like this you fail to separate your subjective opinion about "young" and "low" from fact. And even if I grant you that false premise, SE is still well within their right to add new content and reduce existing content difficulty, since the simple fact remains that the orignial BCOB was given this treatment when there was less content for sure and did so to great success.

[Tiggy]

Yet you choose to stereotype casual/low skilled players (case in point in your words above).

Notice I didn't pick one but listed both. This was as best an attempt as possible to make it clear who I'm discussing. I advocate a more friendly enviroment, but I'm not so ignorance to acknowledge that there are large groups of people with very common characteristics. Just as "raiders" is a group of people who all raid, there most certainly exists a low skilled group that could be labeled as such or a casual group that could be labeled as such. Labeling that group isn't the problem. Sticking to prejudices and stereotypes about that label is something else entirely. You're attempt to make me out to be a hypocrite fails. Maybe we need a new name with less context to call them by so there is less negative connotation. Not like it will catch on though.

And stop acting like everyone having problems getting T5 down or some of the tougher fights is a victim. That's insulting to people who don't have time due to work, family, friends, or other reasons. Not everyone is being held down by "the man."
Also, stop acting like everyone who beats this content is a run selling ego maniac lording their winnings over all. That's a great example of stereotypes and prejudices at work and it's not even remotely true.

And even in a simple statement like this you fail to separate your subjective opinion about "young" and "low" from fact. And even if I grant you that false premise, SE is still well within their right to add new content and reduce existing content difficulty, since the simple fact remains that the orignial BCOB was given this treatment when there was less content for sure and did so to great success.

Fact: The game is barely a year old. That is quite young in MMO standards. Look at long lasting MMO's like WoW, FFXI, and Everquest as proof of the point. To that point the age is directly proportionate to the amount of content. The older the game is the more content is has. This isn't subjective that the game is barely over a year old and still has little content.

Fact: I've never argued even once that what they are doing to the SOCB is bad, or overdone, or uncessary. I have in fact on several instances defended the changes and have on repeated occasions advocated a for more mid skill level content which SOCB with nerfs exactly is. Especially once we all get better gear and the echo kicks in.

Do you have any idea why you have a problem with me at all? Is it really so subjective that having content between easy and super hard is a bad thing for the game because that's what I've been saying the entire time. I'm thinking there is a reading comprehension fail if you have been reading what I've said because I don't think you got my message at all.

Maybe it's time to calm down all the defensive posting and try to understand what people are saying instead of just lashing out at them. Clearly we aren't that much in disagreement, but you've already lumped me in the elitist crowd even though I don't in any way advocate a no nerf scenario. In your haste to prove me wrong, nitpick every little thing, and attempt to defend every "oppressed" players "everywhere" you've completely missed my message.