Hey, Sincerely Thank You SE for easing up on Coil

[Kinseykinz]

Just find a static already.

To be clear, I could work for a couple weeks, pug in DF and find a static. Not only that, I've been in statics before.

1st Static was great....until it broke up over a lotting mishap (it really was an accident that some poor bloke thought he could lot on the Monk gloves but OMG the tempers that ensued)
2nd Static was only to clear T5...the people were lovely...but OMG they wasted so much of my time AFK, playing with their cats, children etc...while on a run (homegirl ain't got time for that) So while I still occasionally help out with this team (they are in-game friends), I don't want to commit to it, because seriously, they waste that much time AFK it drives my 'type A-ness' up the wall
I haven't joined in any other statics or pugs. Why?
1. I was trying to catch my old FC mates and friends up to me in content....and this took MONTHS
2. I decided that it is more fun to wait, but beat the content with people you like, than a random team of people who more or less are using you to get what they want (the shinies)
3, Now I'm pregnant. Morning sickness has totally NOT been my friend...and I seriously doubt you'd want your WHM (or SMN as it is my secondary and a critical role on some turns), running afk mid-battle to puke. And yes, I have sadly had this happen on dungeon/ST runs ...not cool, totally not cool. Now that portion of my pregnancy IS fading...but I'm still left with the in 5ish months I likely will be AWOL from game and/or unable to keep a steady schedule due to you know, needing to actually tend to said minion. So NOW I won't even join a static in my new FC (and it has been offered) because I don't want to leave them hanging in a couple months.

So I fill in. Yes, some of it is by choice...but that doesn't negate my desire to see the story, help others progress or wish for BC2 to be unlocked (and more or less un-nerfed for a while)

And this is just me.

I've known people that work rotating shifts who simply can't find a static due to not being online the same days times.

I've known people who can't log in at 'normal' hours to join statics with people they know....and playing with strangers just isn't their cup of tea

I've known people who after a 'drop drama' are that turned off from statics they refuse to re-join one.

I've also known people who've tried hard ....for months on end to form static teams, only to remain 6/8 and get frustrated. It really IS hard to form a static team w/ 7 other random strangers who have nothing in common other than wanting to beat T6-9. It is much easier if you are at least partially from the same FC/LS. But many FC's have yet to even have 50% of their members clear T5 (yes, this is actually true)....so some people, love their FC but literally have NO ONE they can play with in T6+. Others are in Coil static FC's but they are '3rd DPS in line'....and well, so they can find 2 other dps friends, but then are stuck recruiting 2 tanks/2 healers...not exactly the easiest thing when tanks/healers can make their own rules due to limited supply/talent.

And lastly, not everyone is a 'go-getter' or leader. Even in your Static, likely only 1-3 of you probably actively sought out other members....the other members, just happened to find you, like you and stick with you. They didn't try to start their own thing, they wanted to JOIN an established thing. Lots of people prefer joining than leading...and this is okay....but it means a lot of shy, capable people are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the Unlock.

So yeah, in some ways you're right, people really desperate should just 'form their own' groups and get in there already. But not everyone is THAT desperate...and even for those who are, many understand 'I just can't commit to that'. And there are A LOT of people who for the reasons I listed above, really simply can't make a commitment to a team. It's not even about finding people...it's committing to them. Many of us can wait...we'd just prefer the wait was shortened and not accompanied by an auto-nerf right off the bat. I fully realize I made a decision that playing with friends, and taking care of my RL is more important than getting pretend shinies after killing pixelated beasties. I just wish SE didn't more or less force people to sit in the sidelines beyond when the content was relevant (And yes, not allowing it to be DFable/locking people out after a weekly clear is a 'force')

[Lito00]

To be clear, I could work for a couple weeks, pug in DF and find a static. Not only that, I've been in statics before.

1st Static was great....until it broke up over a lotting mishap (it really was an accident that some poor bloke thought he could lot on the Monk gloves but OMG the tempers that ensued)
2nd Static was only to clear T5...the people were lovely...but OMG they wasted so much of my time AFK, playing with their cats, children etc...while on a run (homegirl ain't got time for that) So while I still occasionally help out with this team (they are in-game friends), I don't want to commit to it, because seriously, they waste that much time AFK it drives my 'type A-ness' up the wall
I haven't joined in any other statics or pugs. Why?
1. I was trying to catch my old FC mates and friends up to me in content....and this took MONTHS
2. I decided that it is more fun to wait, but beat the content with people you like, than a random team of people who more or less are using you to get what they want (the shinies)
3, Now I'm pregnant. Morning sickness has totally NOT been my friend...and I seriously doubt you'd want your WHM (or SMN as it is my secondary and a critical role on some turns), running afk mid-battle to puke. And yes, I have sadly had this happen on dungeon/ST runs ...not cool, totally not cool. Now that portion of my pregnancy IS fading...but I'm still left with the in 5ish months I likely will be AWOL from game and/or unable to keep a steady schedule due to you know, needing to actually tend to said minion. So NOW I won't even join a static in my new FC (and it has been offered) because I don't want to leave them hanging in a couple months.

So I fill in. Yes, some of it is by choice...but that doesn't negate my desire to see the story, help others progress or wish for BC2 to be unlocked (and more or less un-nerfed for a while)

And this is just me.

I've known people that work rotating shifts who simply can't find a static due to not being online the same days times.

I've known people who can't log in at 'normal' hours to join statics with people they know....and playing with strangers just isn't their cup of tea

I've known people who after a 'drop drama' are that turned off from statics they refuse to re-join one.

I've also known people who've tried hard ....for months on end to form static teams, only to remain 6/8 and get frustrated. It really IS hard to form a static team w/ 7 other random strangers who have nothing in common other than wanting to beat T6-9. It is much easier if you are at least partially from the same FC/LS. But many FC's have yet to even have 50% of their members clear T5 (yes, this is actually true)....so some people, love their FC but literally have NO ONE they can play with in T6+. Others are in Coil static FC's but they are '3rd DPS in line'....and well, so they can find 2 other dps friends, but then are stuck recruiting 2 tanks/2 healers...not exactly the easiest thing when tanks/healers can make their own rules due to limited supply/talent.

And lastly, not everyone is a 'go-getter' or leader. Even in your Static, likely only 1-3 of you probably actively sought out other members....the other members, just happened to find you, like you and stick with you. They didn't try to start their own thing, they wanted to JOIN an established thing. Lots of people prefer joining than leading...and this is okay....but it means a lot of shy, capable people are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the Unlock.

So yeah, in some ways you're right, people really desperate should just 'form their own' groups and get in there already. But not everyone is THAT desperate...and even for those who are, many understand 'I just can't commit to that'. And there are A LOT of people who for the reasons I listed above, really simply can't make a commitment to a team. It's not even about finding people...it's committing to them. Many of us can wait...we'd just prefer the wait was shortened and not accompanied by an auto-nerf right off the bat. I fully realize I made a decision that playing with friends, and taking care of my RL is more important than getting pretend shinies after killing pixelated beasties. I just wish SE didn't more or less force people to sit in the sidelines beyond when the content was relevant (And yes, not allowing it to be DFable/locking people out after a weekly clear is a 'force')

Thank you for being one of the few people who have given a clear points for the majority of players. We aren't all casual noobs, or super hardcore elites. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle.

I, personally, cleared T1-5 before the nerf, but am struggling to get my static through T6-9. We have been a group with 6/8 members for months (half a year)... and when we get a new person, another person seems to always drop off. As a result, I have a static that struggles trying to clear T6-8 regularly (because we have to PUG 1-2 players each week)... let alone getting solid time in T9 to down that.

Getting good T9 time in without nerfs would be a dream of mine. I know I can do it. I know my static can do it. And with other FC friends, we certainly could. Yay for no lockouts! But doing it after it has been nerfed as well will make the victory feel hollow (at least to me).

Anyway, I am not going to participate in the discussion at large, but I just had to give you a shout out. I gave you a 'Like' but it just wasn't enough. Thank you for being a voice of the majority. Not just a voice from "one side" or "the other".

[Marukoban]

snip

I'm sure there are people who doesn't want to join static due to various reason, but should they go around spewing excuses here and there?
People without fixed work schedule might find it hard to form static, but for everyone else ...
Hard to play with stranger? We all play with stranger in this game, save for a few real life friends.
None of your FC mates is SCoB ready? Find static elsewhere (that's what I did).
The go-getter thing ... I can't comment on that haha .. You will not get anywhere if you don't at least try to put yourself out there and this applies to everything (including RL). I'm sure everyone in static at some point put themselves out there, either by contacting people recruiting or putting advertisement to find static.
Don't want any drama? Start your own drama-less static.
In fact, I'm irked that people throw around the notion static = hardcore.
Static does not equal to hardcore. You can make whatever static you want, whether it's hardcore, elite, slow progression, casual, etc.
Like I said, it all comes down to whether you really want it or not.

It's fine if you don't really want it, as not every content is for everyone.
I mean people have different priorities and it's good, but just as you may have your own real life problem, it doesn't mean those in statics don't have it.
I have full-time job, school (taking weekday night/weekend classes), volunteering activity, friends, etc.
Sometimes I can only log in for my raid time (which is like 2-3 x 2 hours a week) and it took me almost a month to reach my first lvl 50.

I honestly also don't really like how you use the word desperate?
Is working towards what you think is fun = desperate? I don't think anyone is desperate when they try to form a static.

And the last point is, you seem to forget that SCoB is totally pug-able from t6-9 after about 3-4 months?
You don't even need static to clear coil (know some people who clear without static).
So yea, you can always do the content when it's relevant and don't need to commit to anyone.

[Kinseykinz]

response

And NOTHING you said, excuses the purposeful lockout. Nothing.

It's the lockouts that are the problem. Not the difficulty. Not even the grouping. It's the lockouts that create the NEED for statics. And btw, suggesting people commit to statics, when they full-well know that's not a good idea for whatever reason, and then to BLAME them that they can't access content is foolish. And PuG's aren't reliable....at all. People who pug it, are in fact those desperate to gain clears/gears, but who can't find a static. So yeah they are PuGing it...most of the time in hopes of 'catching up' and finally being 'good enough' or just simply finding a static. But I was trying (albeit to deaf ears) to explain to you that many wait for when the content is DFable/unlocked because that is the 'less stress' approach. But by that point, SE deems the content 'needs nerfed' and 'is outdated' I'm saying, they should unlock it earlier....not necessarily right at it's launch, but after 3-4 months, there is no reason not to unlock the once a week restriction on players (gear could still be locked). Just doing that, will mean more people will get to play it, and experience it while relevant,at full-strength, and without locks. (Think ST, but instead of one personal drop/week, you only can lot on each turn the 1st time you clear it each week).

You're blaming the players for not adapting to SE's system. I'm trying to point out, that it would be more prudent for ALL involved for SE to adjust their lockout system to the actual needs of the players. No nerfs required (at least not initially). And to be frank, I'm getting tired of paying for a game that purposefully makes it difficult for everyone to participate in content, forces people to decide 'personal gain' or 'friends' and is continually pushing the community further apart. Just like if you have the gil, you should be able to buy a house (and not this current 'you better have the gil AND be able to login within the first 30 minutes of a patch going live), if you have the access, and have met all prereq's, you should be able to enter content. You should NOT be forced to wait for arbitrary reasons because SE is too lazy/cheap and needs to stretch content/server structure.

If they allowed Coil to be repeatable each week, it wouldn't lessen the progress of your static at all....but it'd allow you to go back and help your FC mates (that you must like), catch up and learn. And wouldn't you like to be able to play content you seem to enjoy, with them too?

[Tiggy]

And NOTHING you said, excuses the purposeful lockout. Nothing.
...

If they allowed Coil to be repeatable each week, it wouldn't lessen the progress of your static at all....but it'd allow you to go back and help your FC mates (that you must like), catch up and learn. And would you like to be able to play with them too?

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone. There are pros and cons to the lockout and to not having the lockout. If you want to convince people they should go away then you should address all the cons it brings with it. Even SE realized that when they said 2.45 would loosen the lockout but with repercussions to drop rates based on the number of people you bring that had completed it already. This isn't just about helping your friends. There are larger game balance issues at work. Consider them and make an argument for how it can actually function in the real world. Until then arguments like this aren't helping. They are just advocating a world that has different but very real problems as well.

You should NOT be forced to wait for arbitrary reasons because SE is too lazy/cheap and needs to stretch content/server structure.

Lastly, I had to point it out. You don't seem to understand what you're talking about. None of that is arbitrary at all. Once again you aren't considering pros and cons of what it takes to do what you say. Adding new servers takes time, money, dev team resources, etc that they may not have at that exact time or would be a band-aid for a better fix rolling out a bit later. Things aren't so black and white as "they didn't do it so it must be arbitrary and means they are just cheap" and they never will be. This reminds me of the thread with the guy complaining about 24 hour maintenance. Comes from a place of ignorance on the topic.

[Kinseykinz]

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone.

THAT is also SE's and not my problem. Maybe they should address, and actually do something about selling runs....OR they could accept it as par for the course as they do for everything else, also, runs will (and are) still being sold. Keeping people out of the content so things may or may not happen is absurd.

And you don't know what you're talking about. EX primals, and all other content can be 'sold' if people desire to sell and buy. And are...and it's not a pendemic...the very thing that makes coil runs valuable in the first place is their 'exclusive' nature. Getting rid of the 'exclusive' lock outs, lowers their presumed value (at least as a sold run), and thus, selling them won't be widespread. (Basically, the reason people can charge through the nose for them is because they can only run 1 person through on their character AND typically give up any drops to said person...so you are basically paying them for 'giving you' their lotting rights) Currently, People are interested in buying them just so they can progress....because they see it as an only albeit, desperate option. SE NOT unlocking the content, is making a situation where people are desperate. How sad is that?

Also, I don't care if they 'need time' to make resources....they've had over a year to create the resources...and they have failed miserably. They have been rolling in sub fees the entire time...IE they HAVE been making money, it's beyond hogwash to say 'sorry guys, we just aren't investing in our infrastucture so you need to wait' Any other service or business that did this too you, you would tell off and find something else. IE, if you're willing to pay your cable company for HBO, and they say 'sorry, we gave out all of our available HBO packages...maybe you can get it in 4 months...you'd likely be pissed. It's THEIR job to make sure every customer has access to the SAME content provided they pay for the service and meet the requirements. If you beat T5, you should be able to DF T6. If you have the gil, you should be able to buy a house.

PS: All BC coil 2 drops are total over-kill and not needed to complete current content...you only need that crap, come 2.4....when Ironically, you could farm it all in a week if you so desired. So even the gear isn't a 'OMG the game will be broken!' thing...it's a 'we need to slow them down so they don't get bored and leave thing' Well right now, there's a bunch of bored people who aren't logging in because they cannot even enter it. Either way, people are either burnt out on the content....or sick and tired of waiting for access they should have had the entire time. I could give two craps about the gear...I want to see the story, it's the only reason I play.

[Tiggy]

...and it's not a pendemic...

Yet. That was my entire point is that it would get worse. You call me wrong and you clearly missed the point. The rest of your post is just plugging your ears, complaining, and not caring what-so-ever what that means like your complaints are easily fixed. You even go as far as to say it's not your problem. Reconnect yourself with reality a bit more.

stuff

Some are low skill. Some are just too casual. It's not an insult unless you take offense and being called exactly what you are. If those titles bother you even when they are perfectly descriptive then you need thicker skin in life. Not every label is instantly derogatory. Sometimes labels are requires simply to easily talk about a group of people and in this context many people don't complete coil due to lack of time (casual) or because they have trouble completing mechanics (low skill). By all means please create a new term we can use to refer to the non-raiding group. If the community picks it up we'd all be better for it.

Labels aren't the problem though. It's acting on the prejudice and stereotypes that come with those raiders. Your post and the "jokes" you listed are a great example of those stereotypes in action and being continually propagated. It's also a great example of how the casual/lowskill white knights use insults against raiders like their justified for being nasty to the other group. Your not. Thank you for being a great example of what's wrong with how people treat one another. No respect. No understanding. Just disparaging jokes, and you probably think you're actually helping too. You're only helping build animosity.

Believe it or not, I actually didn't receive a warning the last time everyone got riled up for 5 pages about that joke.

This tells me you definitely knew ahead of time that what you were doing was divisive and morally on sketchy ground. The worst.

[Kinseykinz]

Yet. That was my entire point is that it would get worse. You call me wrong and you clearly missed the point. The rest of your post is just plugging your ears, complaining, and not caring what-so-ever what that means like your complaints are easily fixed. You even go as far as to say it's not your problem. Reconnect yourself with reality a bit more.

Again, I understood you. I am telling you that it would NOT get worse. That if coil was 'unlocked' earlier, and more people could gain access/FC's could repeat the content to assist their members, less people would be so desperate for a win pre-nerf, pre-patch etc that the 'value' of a carry run would go down. Sure, people would still be selling runs...but it wouldn't be at any more or less a rate than people sell T5, or EX primal wins now. THAT was my point.

The reason people are charging so much...(and I guess someone is paying the price) is because it's 'limited'. The people doing the carry can only enter and clear 1x each character they have...(and even if they are using alts...ranking and gearing an alt to the point that it can clear T9 is an investment) And while I have no idea what the going rate for this is on my server, I do know based on the PF 'ads' I've seen for it that 'all drops are the buyers' So...the carriers are also basically selling you their lotting chances for the week. Basically, the carrier's only gain is the gil....they have to work overtime to ensure the win, get no gear or true character progression for themselves that week.

So now, take the same team/situation (selling runs), but make it so they can repeat the content (even if they can't lot anymore), and all the sudden, the value drops. Why?
1. They didn't need to invest time to level alts...they can use their fully-geared mains to 'carry' as often as they like. (IE less time involved leveling/questing/gearing an alt)
2. They don't have to give up their personal gear drops to do it....before taking customers through for the week, the can do their own static runs and gear up.
3. FC's/LS's and friends in general will be free to run and teach the content to their friends while it's still the 'in thing'...meaning less people will become so desperate they become willing to pay for a run in the first place (IE Supply vs. Demand).

It's not that if they unlocked coil I think NO ONE will sell....it's just the prices they will be able to charge would be far lower, and the potential pool of desperate buyers would be far lower too.

Meanwhile:
No one is THAT desperate to beat Ramuh EX THIS week that they will pay you 50million for it. No one. 1-3 million, maybe...50 million, not happening. The difference? Unlocked content.



PS: It's NOT my problem (and when I say this I mean to SOLVE) SE hasn't figured out how to let people access coil w/o character lockouts and still keep the coil gear 'special' I would think in an MMO world, they'd WANT people to play and challenge their hardest top-tier content as often as possible with as many friends and people as possible. Instead, they created an insular system that penalizes 'assisting' others or even making contacts outside your '8-man' It's over a year since launch, and SE has introduced little to no reason to have a friendship circle larger than 8. EVERYTHING in this game is doable with 8 people....everything.

Not only do the current coil lockouts prevent 'assisting' your FC mates...but they actually prohibit FC growth, and in some respects, might even be one of the subtle causes of the housing 'server stress' issues. What I mean is this, since everything can be done by a solid 8-man team, many small groups made their own FC's...afterall, why not, it's not like you NEED a big FC or group of people to do anything relevant in game anyway... but all these small FC's of 4-20ish members, really weren't SE's plan for the whole 'FC' thing. SE expected FC's to likely average around 200-300 members. Which would have been much more feasible on the housing servers as instead of having tons of small 4-20 man FC's each buying their own house etc, you'd have a modest amount of 200+ man FC's buying housing. And this matters, because ONE 200 member FC would only eat up ONE slot....the same membership however, spread out more like it is now in game over the smaller FC's...would eat up anywhere from 1/3 to an entire housing ward+ (200/20=10 houses vs 200/4=50 houses)...but because currently, the most difficult content in game is 'locked' and best done with a 'static' team, there is little to no reason to join or stay in a FC that doesn't contain said static (outside social reasons...which to be fair, matter to many, but can also be handled via other means like linkshells and friends lists etc). And yes, I know that even by 'unlocking' BC they still don't fix the much needed ' actually difficult,large scale content=need for large group' problem, but if Coil was unlocked then people WOULD be interested in joining FC's that were able to help them clear the 'tough' content...FC's that they saw as 'winners' etc.

So yeah, at the end of the day, you see 'lockouts' as preventing bad things like 'carrys' and 'sells' ....I already see the lockouts as something that is already causing far more damage...it's segregating the community, splintering established groups like FC's, keeping people locked in their own little circles (statics), and probably in a round about way, led to some of SE's unforeseen server structure problems like housing. And that's not even counting the people who log in, clear coil, log out until reset....or the people who stopped playing altogether until the next patch as they couldn't find a static and gave up...and had done everything else they were interested in. Removing the lockout, also encourages more people to log in more often each week.

[Krr]

stuff

abusive concern trolling.txt

[Coatl]

This view point fails to address that removing the lockout will turn run selling into a pandemic that cheapens it for everyone..

Meh. I don't care what group makes 50m off selling coil runs to players who will move onto final coil. I just want to be able to help my friends with coil.

The gil will sink into vanity items and the players who paid for their win will either have to straighten up for Final Coil or get left behind anyway.