Paladin needs an enmity/potency buff.

[Alphras]

No, WAR is ahead.
The enmity modifiers are the same between Shield Oath vs Defiance, Savage Blade vs Skull Sunder and Rage Of Halone vs Butcher's Block.
For potency, Fast Blade = Heavy Swing = 150, Savage Blade = Skull Sunder = 200, Rage Of Halone = 260, Butcher's Block = 280

Please take a look at the difference between Defiance and Shield Oath. You will see, that WAR has a bigger damage penalty.

[Giantbane]

These formulas seem to account for the enmity multipliers for the two combos to be the same, however I have seen threads where people claimed to have parsed it out and found the WAR enmity multipliers to be x0.5 higher than what people thought (ex. x3.5 vs x3).

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...potency_table/

Out of curiousity, what emnity multipliers are people using in their equations?

The original threat values were derived via controlled tests last year at release and then updated when everything changed in 2.1. But I don't know of anyone that's looked at them closely since then. 3x for sunder/savage & 5x for halone/butchers. Everything else is AoE and not pertinent to discussions about single target rotations.

Also, he's getting the 3.5 & 5.5 for WAR from a 3rd party app. I mean, it could very well be right which would change things a bit, but I have no idea how they calculate the threat for that app, so there's no guarantee it's 100% accurate (as we saw with DPS parsers and the ability to pick up SwO).

[Alphras]

According to http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivapp/com...ty_calculated/ they are reading the data directly from memory, which would make x3.5 and x5.5 our best bet since square does not want to provide accurate numbers.

[Giantbane]

According to http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivapp/com...ty_calculated/ they are reading the data directly from memory, which would make x3.5 and x5.5 our best bet since square does not want to provide accurate numbers.

Given what FallenWings had roughly worked out here. The WAR was behind the PLD by a good deal using SP>BB>BB. As long as this doesn't push SP>BB>BB ahead of PLD threat, I don't think it's a problem.

[Alphras]

Ah sorry, perhaps I was not clear enough. As far as I know, the multipliers are x3.5 for Skull Sunder/Savage Blade and x5.5 for Butcher's Block/Rage of Halone. They are the same for both classes for their equivalent abilities.

[Symbiant]

The PLD *IS* using spirits within & circle of scorn on cooldown, has the same level of gear, very similar stats in terms of STR/crit/det and is specced the same way (STR vs. VIT) as the WAR, right? Otherwise it's a very bad test.

I already stated no cd's being used only the 3 combo rotations. Like I said like 5 times already. People are obsessed with numbers and not reality. Theories are created to give people a basic idea of what could be possible but, not all possibilities. It's no different then in war. You can train and simulate all you want for the war but, when it happens it typically does not play out to plan.

Just try it or don't try it but, you will see same race / same stats / same gear / basic 1, 2, 3 rotation (minus the weapon) and war will take hate and gain hate on the pld on every rotation. I am not twisting anyone's arm I am just stating what I have test and know to be true.

[Alphras]

Did you use Shield Oath and Defiance in your test? Because I have seen very different results with that. I guess I will test it tonight to see if and where the magic is happening.


Edit:
While I am at it I did the simulations for PLD/WAR while trying to get the max enmity possible. I used 6 minutes as baseline, because the cooldowns line up better (Unchained + Berserk 120 seconds, FoF 90 seconds).

PLD (638.61 enmity potency/s): http://pastebin.com/t0QB1VHn
WAR (639.18 enmity potency/s): http://pastebin.com/Jv6uYN6N

I am pretty sure I can optimize the WAR somehow further.

Things to note:
- I can't fit Inner Beast or Steel Cyclone in there without loosing enmity
- the break even point seems to be around 100s in this simulation - not waiting with Berserk until Unchained is up put the WAR ahead
- self buffs add a flat enmity value, which is ignored here and would favor WAR a tiny bit
- WAR selfheals don't generate extra enmity
- not directly relevant, but I still need to test if the healing bonus of Defiance/Convalescence actually increase emnity of the healer (anyone knows this for sure?)
- rng would favor WAR again

[Reynhart]

I already stated no cd's being used only the 3 combo rotations. Like I said like 5 times already. People are obsessed with numbers and not reality.

The problem is that no tank use only the 3 combo rotations, so, without even considering numbers, your example is meaningless

[TouchandFeel]

@ Alphras

Thanks for doing those calculations.

Did you factor in crit potential for each class and how that could effect damage and enmity?
I think that would be interesting to look at as well since crit is an important mechanic for war since wrath stacks and internal release both increase that.

I'd also be interested to see dps and enmity while maximizing defensive buffs for WAR.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I am pretty sure I can optimize the WAR somehow further.

9-hit Berserk is doable with as high as 2.47s GCD, if you delay Berserk activation.
You could Flash during Pacification.
(HS > M > BB > BB > BB) is slightly better enmity/GCD (~20) than (SE > BB > BB > BB). The latter is still better during Unchained+Berserk.
Berserk+Unchained should(?) be better enmity generation than Unchained+Berserk.