Paladin needs an enmity/potency buff.

[Symbiant]

Take a paladin / war w/ basically the same gear (as close as possible in tank stance) same race. Have them do a standard hate rotation (no cooldowns) and a war will take hate every time on single target and aoe. It's not a hard test try it out. I have and the war takes it every time. You can theory craft all you want just try that one simple test and you will see that not only will the war take hate but, it will increase its hold every rotation.

[Alphras]

What do you mean with standard rotation? A WAR spamming the butchers block combo will do less damage and enmity than a PLD spamming the Halone combo. The difference is not huge, but if they both have exactly the same stats the WAR will lose.

Edit: I guess the crit buff from the wrath stacks would make up for the difference if you really don't use them.

[Reynhart]

Take a paladin / war w/ basically the same gear (as close as possible in tank stance) same race. Have them do a standard hate rotation (no cooldowns) and a war will take hate every time on single target and aoe. It's not a hard test try it out. I have and the war takes it every time. You can theory craft all you want just try that one simple test and you will see that not only will the war take hate but, it will increase its hold every rotation.

The blurry part is not who will keep hate in tank stance but who will do more damage out of tank stance.

And since PLD has more off-GCD offensive skills, your rotation is more crippling for PLD.

What do you mean with standard rotation? A WAR spamming the butchers block combo will do less damage and enmity than a PLD spamming the Halone combo.

Butcher's Block has a slighty higher potency than RoH. More testing is needed to see if the faster auto-attack can make up for it.

[Symbiant]

Standard rotation (pld) fast / savage / roh (war) heavy / ss / bb.

The concern is not the amount of damage but, the amount of hate generated per class. The point of the op was that he / she thinks pld generates less hate so they need something to increase it. It might be a potency increase or what ever but, the jist is more hate.

Unfortunately people tend to skew things on this forum and twist the entire post. Someone was trying to explain hate generation via threat and show some numbers then those numbers turned into a argument about dps. The post was not about dps so let us get back on the topic.

Thanks.

[Alphras]

Like I wrote. On a potency base this rotation puts the PLD ahead compared to WAR (with Shield Oath/Defiance).

[Symbiant]

I just simply said for people to try the test. Theories are all good and such but, a theory does not always play into reality. If people don't want to do try the test it's no biggy to me. I have done it enough to know the war wins out (threat) every time.

[Reynhart]

Like I wrote. On a potency base this rotation puts the PLD ahead compared to WAR (with Shield Oath/Defiance).

No, WAR is ahead.
The enmity modifiers are the same between Shield Oath vs Defiance, Savage Blade vs Skull Sunder and Rage Of Halone vs Butcher's Block.
For potency, Fast Blade = Heavy Swing = 150, Savage Blade = Skull Sunder = 200, Rage Of Halone = 260, Butcher's Block = 280

[Giantbane]

No, WAR is ahead.
The enmity modifiers are the same between Shield Oath vs Defiance, Savage Blade vs Skull Sunder and Rage Of Halone vs Butcher's Block.
For potency, Fast Blade = Heavy Swing = 150, Savage Blade = Skull Sunder = 200, Rage Of Halone = 260, Butcher's Block = 280

Defiance is a -25% penalty, Shield Oath is a -20% penalty. Spamming BB only gives you the ability to brutal swing and auto attack. Spamming halone still lets you spirits within, circle of scorn and auto-attack. SE>BB>BB should end up a little higher anyway when you account for the extra threat provided by SE & Maim working on auto-attacks & brutal swing. Not to mention Inner Beast, a potent damage ability, but fairly mediocre in terms of threat generated when used.

WAR only truly pulls ahead with a properly executed, fully buffed 3x BB UBIR combo. Otherwise while the WAR has greater burst threat via UBIR vs. FoF, the PLD has comprable or better threat over the course of an entire fight unless the WAR focuses entirely on threat with SE>3xBB UBIR to SE>BB>BB spam (which will lower DPS and mitigation).

Most of the math in this thread is on pages 4-7ish. Although there's more throughout the forum if you choose to look for it.

[Giantbane]

I just simply said for people to try the test. Theories are all good and such but, a theory does not always play into reality. If people don't want to do try the test it's no biggy to me. I have done it enough to know the war wins out (threat) every time.

The PLD *IS* using spirits within & circle of scorn on cooldown, has the same level of gear, very similar stats in terms of STR/crit/det and is specced the same way (STR vs. VIT) as the WAR, right? Otherwise it's a very bad test.

[TouchandFeel]

These formulas seem to account for the enmity multipliers for the two combos to be the same, however I have seen threads where people claimed to have parsed it out and found the WAR enmity multipliers to be x0.5 higher than what people thought (ex. x3.5 vs x3).

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...potency_table/

Out of curiousity, what emnity multipliers are people using in their equations?