With things like third party DBMs coming to XIV... when are we getting addon support?

[Amused]

I just don't understand the point in doing challenging content if you're just going to use a crutch like this.

[Doki]

People used to fail hard in vanilla WoW, even WITH DBM. Still, this game does throw out too many icons for buffs & debuffs, floor marks, and blinding visual effects... it's a lot to have to filter. I see no issue with DBM type add ons on PC. There is no doubt it will lead to "PC ONLY" party finder groups though.

[Limecat]

Assuming they ever roll out addons, the first thing I want to see is one that automatically hands in items for quests, or automatically trades over junk for NPCs that require items like the oak knot guy or DoL/DoH one in Revenant's. Leves/supply would still have to be manual because of mixed NQ/HQ turn-ins, but everything else is unnecessarily irritating.

[Risvertasashi]

I'm sorry if it came out offensive, but that wasn't my intention. I still think that DBM is crap, though, as I see it kinda like cheating. With it, instead of learning the fight you're just following what the add-on tells you.

And why don't you ask that they improve it for everyone instead of making them use these same resources to build the API to make add-ons possible? I think that if everyone benefits without having to rely on outside apps, it would be better. And everyone will be playing with the same rules, too (unless they break the ToS, but that's their problem).

Us healers have been asking for stuff like this for a long time. SE has limited resources; if we had an API, we'd already have better buff bars, alliance panes, party windows, etc. And probably better UIs for tanks and DPS and crafters too. Of course, for people that don't care and don't need them, they'd be free to stick with the defaults.

You can already tell if someone is out of range for heals if the number with the icon for the spell is red when you select them..... how much more hand holding do we need? Most of the game is already faceroll easy where you can sleep through it. If you dont want to put in a little effort.. why even play?

I dont see SE allowing addons, despite prior claims. They have enough problems managing their own code without others writing stuff to piggyback on it, and anything that gives PC users that sort of advantage, they simply will not allow.

The problem is you have to try to select them first. And then, if I can't select someone because they're *that* far away (Say ST or PVP)... I mentally make a note to not even try to heal them, which means if they run back in range they still don't get heals.

...yeah, I'm worried they might have just decided to drop it. I hope not, but if they have decided not to do addons after all, I'd like them to tell us. Anyway, I could easily see PS4 support being added as well. It doesn't have to be PC exclusive.

[Yshnal]

Us healers have been asking for stuff like this for a long time. SE has limited resources; if we had an API, we'd already have better buff bars, alliance panes, party windows, etc. And probably better UIs for tanks and DPS and crafters too. Of course, for people that don't care and don't need them, they'd be free to stick with the defaults.

The problem is what Shougun explained, so eventually even those not willing or needing to use them now, will be expected to use them. And the main issue with that is that I don't agree with any game that makes you use outside tools instead of giving them directly through the official client, specially if I'm giving them money.

That's what happened in "the game that shouldn't be named", and I don't think that we're so special as to don't make that happen here too.

[Teirshin]

The problem is you have to try to select them first. And then, if I can't select someone because they're *that* far away (Say ST or PVP)... I mentally make a note to not even try to heal them, which means if they run back in range they still don't get heals.

...yeah, I'm worried they might have just decided to drop it. I hope not, but if they have decided not to do addons after all, I'd like them to tell us. Anyway, I could easily see PS4 support being added as well. It doesn't have to be PC exclusive.

Keep in mind, its not just the healers job to keep people alive, they have to take SOME responsibility for it too. If someone keeps running out of range, and dies, thats on them, not me. Its a two way street, and esp if I'm doing the MT heals, I talk to the MT and make sure we're on the same page, he keeps an eye out for where I am, an I do the same for him. When you have a group spread out all over the place, a healer cant possibly follow with all of them, so they need to work at being within range of the healer.

In some fights, there's a crap ton of stuff to watch for, and thats part of the challenge of it. The group cant expect the healer(s) to do it all, and if they do, then they deserve what they get when they're dead on the floor.

Do the best you can, but dont get worked up if others arent helping you to help them.

[Xystic]

Wait, people need addons for this game

Its not that this game is terribly easy but I thought people were looking for challenging encounters.

When someone uses mods, doesn't that contradict that argument?

[Risvertasashi]

The problem is what Shougun explained, so eventually even those not willing or needing to use them now, will be expected to use them. And the main issue with that is that I don't agree with any game that makes you use outside tools instead of giving them directly through the official client, specially if I'm giving them money.

That's what happened in "the game that shouldn't be named", and I don't think that we're so special as to don't make that happen here too.

I am fully against automated healing a la World of Warcraft. But I would like better tools for managing information. I think, if the API is limited so that we can't semi-bot, it will be perfectly possible for a default-UI player to succeed.

I would be fine with a "read only" API personally (can not perform any action automatically). Though some players may like auto turn ins and stuff.

Keep in mind, its not just the healers job to keep people alive, they have to take SOME responsibility for it too. If someone keeps running out of range, and dies, thats on them, not me. Its a two way street, and esp if I'm doing the MT heals, I talk to the MT and make sure we're on the same page, he keeps an eye out for where I am, an I do the same for him. When you have a group spread out all over the place, a healer cant possibly follow with all of them, so they need to work at being within range of the healer.

In some fights, there's a crap ton of stuff to watch for, and thats part of the challenge of it. The group cant expect the healer(s) to do it all, and if they do, then they deserve what they get when they're dead on the floor.

Do the best you can, but dont get worked up if others arent helping you to help them.

I agree in spirit. But I want to be the best healer I can possibly be.

Part of "skill", IMO, is managing information effectively. (for example, rearranging the default FFXIV HUD). With better tools to manage info... well, let's keep on with the range example. If I know someone is out of range before I try to select them, I can get heals on a secondary target faster. If I know someone's back in range sooner, I can potentially prevent a death.

Now if that DRG decides to go stand with another alliance or hunt targets on his own... yeah, I'm not going to sacrifice the whole party to run over and heal them, but if they come back, I don't want to let them die if I can help it either. Even if they are somewhat to blame.

And for crafters... how about better inventory/materials management and tracking? And so on for other professions.

[Risvertasashi]

Wait, people need addons for this game

Its not that this game is terribly easy but I thought people were looking for challenging encounters.

When someone uses mods, doesn't that contradict that argument?

Personally I don't really care about DBM-alikes... but I think there's an argument for aural warning systems. There's a reason aircraft have them despite very informative instrumentation--sometimes it just helps to have info coming from more than one channel, so I can relate to players wanting that.

OTOH if you mean semi-automation, no, eff that.

But again. It's not need. It's quality of life. We didn't need the retainer screen to show timers on the same screen, but it's nice. We don't need new hildibrand or other sidequests, but some players find those fun.

In any case, announcement apps do seem to be pretty common in endgame. So for raiders, it's apparently a pretty big QoL thing.

[Zumi]

DBM can not win you fights in WoW. For example lets say you and a group of 10 people are given 10 accounts with ilvl capped characters go in to any heroic wow raid with no prior knowledge of the raid but you have dbm there is virtually no chance you will kill a single boss given the fact that blizz takes into account people use these addons and makes them harder and adds a lot more mechanics. DBM can tell you when a mechanic is about to go off but you need the knowledge of how to counter it and how to act accordingly.

For example if someone says voice on vent in T7 in FFXIV. You have never done T7 have know knowledge of what someone saying voice means. You do nothing and wipe most of your group because you hit them with voice.

All stuff like DBM does is makes stuff louder and alerts you to when stuff is going to happen but you still need to know the fight and how to react to the various call outs.