Initial enmity generation and player bad habits.

[Mardel]

Funny, the problem I see is trigger-happy DPS that can't be bothered to use Quelling Strikes.

Sadly, I've used quelling strikes, left off BFB/Barrage while waiting for my next dot rotation and still pull threat after the tank has shield lobbed. (In PF/DF) I mean my bard isn't doing that much damage at the start.
Typically the tank isn't following up their initial hit properly. Now if I blow all my CD even with quelling I can't expect every tank to hold threat during that- which is why I try and delay that portion in pf/df situations.

[NyneAlexander]

Now if I blow all my CD even with quelling I can't expect every tank to hold threat during that- which is why I try and delay that portion in pf/df situations.

Provided the tank is of comparable iLVL, then yes you absolutely should expect a tank to hold hate through you using quelling and blowing your cooldowns.

[Lillia]

Sometimes on bard or heals I've seen 1 button tanks or.... tanks who dps combo. I assume... 3 button enmity combo is too difficult for some.

But nah, in all seriousness I think there's always that one person in any class/job who really gives their group a hard time when it comes to clearing certain content.

Release the beast!

Edit: Also I still think our biggest flaw on bard is not singing when we need to sing because we don't notice sometimes, not so much using blunt arrow when we're not suppose to. >_>; *hides*

[Mardel]

Provided the tank is of comparable iLVL, then yes you absolutely should expect a tank to hold hate through you using quelling and blowing your cooldowns.

I don't have high expectations of pf/df people most of the time. That is why I said this.

[Hyouretsuzan]

If I do the pull properly I have enough timer on flight or flight to re-apply circle of scorn under the buff. So thats 2 circle of scorn under Fight or flight. (I think that's 2 rage of halone combos in between.)

So I don't see the issue, but you can't slack you need to be on point to get it done correctly.

Hmm...after doing the combo that you said a few times, I can't seem to hit the last rage of halone. I do get that extra scorn but due to the animation of RoH, I miss it by a few milli. It could be you just have slightly more skill speed. I just play it safe and do the method I mentioned since I don't recall ever having an issue of losing threat right at the beginning.

The only reason I find a small issue is that some tank (a lot in my experience) tend to activate fight or flight before they start running towards the boss. That causes them to waste a few sec (Maybe 2 sec)

[Mardel]

Hmm...after doing the combo that you said a few times, I can't seem to hit the last rage of halone. I do get that extra scorn but due to the animation of RoH, I miss it by a few milli. It could be you just have slightly more skill speed. I just play it safe and do the method I mentioned since I don't recall ever having an issue of losing threat right at the beginning.

The only reason I find a small issue is that some tank (a lot in my experience) tend to activate fight or flight before they start running towards the boss. That causes them to waste a few sec (Maybe 2 sec)

I probably did have more skill speed, on the build I was using. I time my fight or flight to be right as i'm running and spamming my shield lob.

[TouchandFeel]

@Mardel

Just for clarification, the situation you are describing is not what I was talking about, I have no problem with dps going all out at the beginning IF they are using quelling. The problem I brought up was with dps that either start before the tank has engaged or even gotten in a lob or who go all out and don't use a enmity reduction ability.

I know there are bad tanks out there who don't establish agro and just run in flash once, usually too early so things aren't even hit, and then use the riot combo. I see these tanks all the time when I play heals or dps. Bad tanks however is a different topic altogether IMO.

[Mardel]

@Mardel

Just for clarification, the situation you are describing is not what I was talking about, I have no problem with dps going all out at the beginning IF they are using quelling. The problem I brought up was with dps that either start before the tank has engaged or even gotten in a lob or who go all out and don't use a enmity reduction ability.

I know there are bad tanks out there who don't establish agro and just run in flash once, usually too early so things aren't even hit, and then use the riot combo. I see these tanks all the time when I play heals or dps. Bad tanks however is a different topic altogether IMO.

Ahh, sorry for derailing. I was pointing out the other aspect that occurs on that end, I completely understand what you mean. During my light farming the other day I was guilty of hitting the target right before shield lob/tomahawk. Which ended up with me dead lol. My fault and I never complained.

[Edli]

That regen before tank pulls a pack of mobs.

[Ladon]

It's likely just that it really doesn't matter in most content. You don't even need a tank in a lot of the 4 man content because nothing hits i105-i110 equipped DDs hard enough that healers can't keep up. They telegraph all of their hard hitting moves that would otherwise be absorbed by a tank in most cases too.